So am i correct than reg 443.4 means unless we provide a risk assesment that states why we are not using a spd in consumer unit changes then we must fit one??
- Thread starter bigspark17
- Start date
That’s how I interpret it.
Not sure how you can carry out a risk assessment however because it states that you have to do a calculation with the different lengths of each element of the distributions various cable lengths.
Lpal, Lpcl, Lpah & Lpch
Other than asking the DNO not sure how these can be determined.
So I guess the only real way is to add type 2 devices to each CU adding £200+ to each job?
Not sure how you can carry out a risk assessment however because it states that you have to do a calculation with the different lengths of each element of the distributions various cable lengths.
Lpal, Lpcl, Lpah & Lpch
Other than asking the DNO not sure how these can be determined.
So I guess the only real way is to add type 2 devices to each CU adding £200+ to each job?
if only applies to commercial only .
wait until the Chinese get their act together the price will drop.
How do you come to that.. nowhere do i see commercial only???!!!
Saw that proteus are now building spd spaces as norm into cu’s.
those numskulls at the IET ,come up with those ideas .fitting them to a domestic consumer unit it will be like building the ISS .
THAT WHY YOU PUT IN A RCBO. the chances of a spike .you have more chances of being kissed on the lips by a giraffe.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 105166
Buzz - do you mean "by a giraffe?" The giraffe is doing the kissing in this context, isn't he/she/it?
An rcbo is not a spd! I dont see a way of ommiting it how the reg is worded
then I is down to the individual person who make that call.
D
Deleted member 105166
443.4 continues with a catch-all, after (i) through (iv) are satisfied, by detailing an exception to the requirement being "single dwelling units where the total value of the installation and equipment therein does not justify such protection". Personally I can't see many exceptions, when considering the small price of installing this protection, ultimately this would be the insurer's call and I imagine it will not be long before buildings and contents policies stipulate SPDs as a requirement in their T&Cs.
Ok buzz i get that you will not be installing them.
Would be intersted if other members will be taking the same approach?
Would be intersted if other members will be taking the same approach?
you have more chances of being kissed on the lips by a giraffe.[/QUOTE]
I was kissed by a giraffe once when I was a kid on a visit to Flamingo Land Zoo many years ago. It lent over it's enclosure fence and reached down to me. I thought it was going to let me stroke it's head but it gave me a smacker on the forehead which is just as well as I wasn't into all that
French kissing stuff at that age!
I was kissed by a giraffe once when I was a kid on a visit to Flamingo Land Zoo many years ago. It lent over it's enclosure fence and reached down to me. I thought it was going to let me stroke it's head but it gave me a smacker on the forehead which is just as well as I wasn't into all that
French kissing stuff at that age!
I take your concern.
this is whet I will do for the next cu change next year .well mr &mrs customer would you like a nice SPD on your CU .tell them what they are for .---- a coin heads you have one .and tails your life .
It’s applicable to all installs no matter whether in a commercial or domestic setting.
I think it’s a very brave move to not install SPD’s as standard
With AFDD’s you can make a case in some circumstances to leave them out but given the detail for SPD’s in regs I simply can’t see anyone has the same ability not to install them given the detail required to assess the need
I think it’s a very brave move to not install SPD’s as standard
With AFDD’s you can make a case in some circumstances to leave them out but given the detail for SPD’s in regs I simply can’t see anyone has the same ability not to install them given the detail required to assess the need
I fitted an spd in the CU in my flat when i changed it over to all rcbo's Hager SPD's not that big compared to some. has a type c 125A MCB then SPD modules the size of standard mcb, its a sort of carrier where the spd part can be popped out and replaced if required.
Back when I fitted it, it came to £68.
the mcb links to spd via a piece of 6mm brown.
Fitted it as the people who wired my flat (new build) didnt fit one, the risk assessment said one was needed and coincidentally they came back to fit them in other flats after i raised it with freeholder!
Back when I fitted it, it came to £68.
the mcb links to spd via a piece of 6mm brown.
Fitted it as the people who wired my flat (new build) didnt fit one, the risk assessment said one was needed and coincidentally they came back to fit them in other flats after i raised it with freeholder!
L
Leesparkykent
Has anyone actually carried out the calculation assuming a few figures that you aren’t going to know like the length the supply cable to the DNO TX? Unless your bang on top of the TX I can’t see it ever being above 1000.
CRL = Fenv /(Lp x Ng)
Fenv is an environmental factor selected according to Table 443.1
Lp is the risk assessment length in kilometres, and
Ng is the lightning ground flash density measured in flashes per square kilometre per year relevant to the location of the power line and connected structure.
Unless you can get all the above info then your going to fitting them on commercial jobs..
For domestic a get-out-clause is given for ‘single-dwelling units’ where the ‘total value of the installation and equipment therein does not justify such protection”.
For someone with just a sky box and tv, doesn’t really justify such protection. For someone that has multimedia setups, intelegent lighting controls, smart heating controls and so on it probably does justify having one fitted.
For the cost of them which aren’t massively expensive then it would be worth having a chat with the customer about having one fitted. Last house I done spent 7K on a HDMI matrix so I don’t think he would be bothered about an extra 60 quid for a SPD.
CRL = Fenv /(Lp x Ng)
Fenv is an environmental factor selected according to Table 443.1
Lp is the risk assessment length in kilometres, and
Ng is the lightning ground flash density measured in flashes per square kilometre per year relevant to the location of the power line and connected structure.
Unless you can get all the above info then your going to fitting them on commercial jobs..
For domestic a get-out-clause is given for ‘single-dwelling units’ where the ‘total value of the installation and equipment therein does not justify such protection”.
For someone with just a sky box and tv, doesn’t really justify such protection. For someone that has multimedia setups, intelegent lighting controls, smart heating controls and so on it probably does justify having one fitted.
For the cost of them which aren’t massively expensive then it would be worth having a chat with the customer about having one fitted. Last house I done spent 7K on a HDMI matrix so I don’t think he would be bothered about an extra 60 quid for a SPD.
Last edited by a moderator:
considering most spikes come from the DNO.UNDER GROUND OR OVER LAND .E.G.TT. like lighting strikes THEY SHOULD PUT THEM IN. why am I shouting .
Hey guys
This is Napits take regarding SPD’s in domestic single dwellings
I’m going to an niceic tech talk the 6th December and will report back what their guidance/ stance is regarding the matter
Note that the lack of need of the CRL is not required for domestic dwellings or necessarily the need of SPD’s according to their advice
This is Napits take regarding SPD’s in domestic single dwellings
I’m going to an niceic tech talk the 6th December and will report back what their guidance/ stance is regarding the matter
Note that the lack of need of the CRL is not required for domestic dwellings or necessarily the need of SPD’s according to their advice
So you think we can only realistically install type 2 and type 3 in non domestic installations as with a type 1 you would require an LPZ in place which I understand would require a risk assessment done for lighting strikes on the building, something that I couldn’t advise on and would struggle to put across to a client to justify needing one.
Normally larger new build commercial jobs where the design aspect is out of the installers duties as when done by a consultant it would be specifie (lighting protection)
L
Leesparkykent
From what I’ve read a type 2+1 SPD for TT overhead.
Type 2 if underground
type 1 or type 2+1 if lightning protection in place
https://www.hager.co.uk/files/download/0/4540_1/0/Surge_Protection_Guide.pdf
Page 17 quick selection guide of SPD’s
N
Nigel
That is not correct. In single dwellings then if the value of equipment protected is less than the cost to install an SPD then no SPD required. However; if the dwelling had medical electrical equipment in then it would require SPD protection.
N
Nigel
The reg does not say you need to provide one. Just that one needs to be carried out.
N
Nigel
Table 443.1 tells you what to do when the distance of the network cable is unknown.
N
Nigel
Sounds like they are talking crap. No mention whatsoever of supply arrangements in the regs.
N
Nigel
I think not to install them would be a non-conformance. Personally I won’t be giving an option. If they need them then my quote will have them in or I won’t be doing the works.
N
Nigel
I would install a Type 1 if it was at the incomer.
Then Type 2 at other DBs down the line.
Type 3 if a vital bit of equipment was installed like a server or fire alarm panel.
all I know that is you have a LPZ then a type 1 is required at the origin to protect against lightning strikes.
As regulation 543.4.1.1 refers an spd installed at the origin shall be a type 1 or 2.
Regulation 534.4.1.4 says that where the structure is not equipped with an external lightning system or doesn’t require protection against lightning strikes,type 2 SPD’s shall be installed as close as possible to the origin.
So by that I conclude that SPD’s of a type 1 nature are not required if you have no LPZ
As regulation 543.4.1.1 refers an spd installed at the origin shall be a type 1 or 2.
Regulation 534.4.1.4 says that where the structure is not equipped with an external lightning system or doesn’t require protection against lightning strikes,type 2 SPD’s shall be installed as close as possible to the origin.
So by that I conclude that SPD’s of a type 1 nature are not required if you have no LPZ
OFFICIAL SPONSORS
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc
Advert
Thread starter
- Joined
- Location
- wales
- If you're a qualified, trainee, or retired electrician - Which country is it that your work will be / is / was aimed at?
- United Kingdom
- What type of forum member are you?
- Electrical Engineer (Qualified)
Thread Information
Advert
Thread statistics
Advert
TrueNAS JBOD Storage Server
-
-
Understanding TrueNAS JBOD Servers: A Comprehensive Guide- Started by Dan
- Replies: 8
-
