SO I believe. But I have known a few table lamp fires in my time, and we have fuses in the plugs as well. OK they probably had a 13A fuse, not a 1A. But we have the ability to give greater protection, they do not in the basic designs.
Who said a 0.75mm flex IS protected by a 16a radial???. I think you may have misread my comment.
I have never heard of a table lamp fire. Can I ask where these occurred and under what circumstances?
candle lamps?
To be fair to OP, I thought he made an intelligent argument regarding use of WAGO connector in a ring circuit, though under scrutiny it ran out of steam. It did however hold my attention. I found the reasoning on "table lamp fires" much less persuasive.
In that case you can start a lucrative business in the UK changing ceiling rose, s
LIghting circuits are on 20A mcbs? New on me.
Sounds good. Looks like the Spanish have come a long way. When I was a kid I recall seeing the bell wire i the ceilings, they used for lighting circuits as they built those shoddy hotels.
I recall as kid we smelled burning in a bedroom. My sister's table lamp was melting - around the switch. My Dad pulled the plug out, taking the smelly lamp outside. I recall it had a 13A fuse in the plug, as it was brown coloured, not a 1A. An electrician neighbour told us put a 1A fuse in table lights. He also went around the house telling us what fuse value to put in the plugs as well. We were lucky we got there soon enough. A 1A would have saved it. That was just in our house.
I actually suggested it to them. It saves them so much time. And a much professional job. One will take all the sockets, FCU, etc, of job home as he has a workbench in his garage. There could be 40-50 of these. He cuts the 2.5mm flex cable (L,N,E sheathed) into approx 6 inch lengths, strips them fixing the tails into the outlets, switches etc. This can take the best part of a day, depending how many.
It was melting at the switch because of either a defective switch or because of a loose connection. Your neighbours well intentioned solution of sticking on a 1 amp fuse rather than a 13 amp fuse would make no difference. Fuses don't detect poor connections. They only detect overloading. Your neighbours suggestion is a good example of a "solution" being provided for a "problem" that did, nt exist
Your suggestion. That figures. Why on earth would anyone design a RFC with every socket actually a spur? I don't get it. I'm trying not to judge and to remain curious but surely this can't be right? Does the person signing off the design actually know that his guys are doing this? What's their motivation for doing it? I don't believe that the assertion that wagos make better connections is the driving force. As you've written in bold the true reason is speed, so therefore the only motivation appears to be greed .... and maybe it makes them feel "clever". In the location of a backbox the cables are pretty well restrained so the screwed terminals won't see any vibrations, and certainly not enough to loosen a screwed terminal that was tight in the first place. The main opportunity for wires to become loose in a socket screwed terminal is when they are manipulated as the socket is pushed onto the backbox. Personally I always pull the socket back out just enough to get to the terminals and retighten.... very occasionally there's one that will nip up slightly.
I have no doubt that the fuses in your case are there for a legitimate reason. What I wanted to highlight was that the lack of fuses in European plugtops is not due to poor electrical design as the OP suggests. Their 16 amp circuit fuses adequately protect their appliance leads because the appliance leads, are sized accordingly. Its worth bearing in mind that the CE mark is a European standard which stipulates that any appliance manufacturer must ensure that their appliances are suitable for the fixed wiring system they are being used in.
You are confused about the current a cable can safely carry continuously and the short circuit current the cable can safely handle.
The original specification for a RFC was a to serve a maximum area of 100 sq. yrds., and that the number of spurs could not exceed the number of sockets on the ring.
Yes, understood, although this again would leave no flexibility for future changes, ie would need to expand the ring in order to add extra sockets. I was referring to the practice of making a ring using wagos in the backboxes and wiring in each socket on 2.5 flex so each one would be a spur off the ring. Seems to me it would be just adding loads of extra connections in the backbox that really don't need to be there...there are perfectly good terminals on the socket...and no opportunity to add extra sockets as spurs at some point in the future.
I may not fully understand but if you can pull the original FRC wires back into the [back]box then you can expand the FRC in the future. Saves work now at the expense of a more difficult possible future renovation.
It does not often lead to that. That is an exception.
Exactly. A fault condition. A 1A fuse would have blown before a fire situation occurred.
Are they? Look again!
They do. Look at them. I gave a photo of the bus bar inside them.
Nonsense. I, m out.
been connecting socket outlets for years 1, 2 0r 3 if care is taken it will be OK.
I think it would be an excellent experiment if you could replicate this fault condition on a lamp switch with a 1A plug fuse and a 10A or 13A plug fuse.
The fuse would only rupture if line/neutral or line/earth create a short, this may or not happen and by the time it got to this stage the operation of the fuse may be irrelevant.
John-SJW earlier in this thread in the heat of the moment I made an un-thought-through comment about even current around the ring and was happy to be put right, so you'd be well advised to learn from my experience and pause two marching paces to give thinking time before deciding what is worth saying out loud.
I am not curious or surprised. Tradesmen are stuck in this we have always done it this way mentality. A resistance to change. Comfofortable with familiar way and products. I have come across this all my life.
Only if a short occurred between line/neutral or line/earth and by the time this happens a ruptured fuse may be of no help.
Or may be of help. I would rather have a 1A fuse in a lamps plug than not.
