RING GUIDE, per socket wire thickness/AMPAGE?

[srands]

HI

On socket wire reels (Twin & Earth, Prysmian or any make really), the thickness determines, the associated AMPAGE, hence:
1.0mm = 15A
1.5mm = 20A
2.5mm = 27A
4.0mm = 36A
6.0mm = 46A
10.0mm = 63A
16.0mm = 85A

HOWEVER, what about the approximate RINGED VALUE of each of the SOCKET WIRE TYPES (Twin & Earth)?

In my 17th Edition IEE Guide, only the most common SKT WIRE thickness RINGED, is mentioned:
1.5mm RINGED = 20A x 1.6 = 32A
2.5mm RINGED = 27A x 1.2 = 32A

What about the approximate RINGED AMPAGES of:
1mm, 4mm, 6mm, 10mm, 16mm?

Does anybody have a reliable RING GUIDE? Or anybody have any good approximate figures, from socket wire reels, electrical websites, reference guides, etc?

Cheers

Stephan

 

[Chr!s]

OK, how condescending! It is a simple question, that has a simple answer :
A very approximate RING AMPAGE per different skt wire diameter!

If its simple why are you asking? work it out

For example, even if a RING circuit was an even loop, and the only LOAD was at the RING loop end, the flow of electrons (anions - and cations +) will NOT necessarily be drawn by the LOAD from SUPPLY in even amounts from each length of skt wire from the fusebox.
Hence RINGing is less then double: 1.5mm 20A x 1.6 = 32A (As stipulated by IEE 17th Edition), so this is 1.6 times the stated AMPAGE of the skt wire (32A/20A=1.6

).

Thats Mr Kirchoff out of the history books then

 

[malcolmsanford]

I'm still trying to work out what a AMPAGE is, I working on the theory that it is a page of a book that can only be read in the mornings

 

[telectrix]

so is a PMPAGE a woman in her 40's ( pre-menopausal age)?

 

[SMB]

I thought Ampage was the village in the 'Archers' on Radio 4.

 

[telectrix]

no that's ambridge, similar to a wheatstones bridge but without the resistances.

 

[Paul.M]

"So you nonsense talkers, give it a rest & stop deliberately "wasting my time", and anybody who can add reliable approx ring ampages to the following, then please speak up:"



If you can tell us the installation method, the ambient temp, the length of the circuit, the earthing arrangement, cable grouping and what type of overload protection you are using then we can answer your question. One of the many questions you have asked is the max amp of whichever cable size you will be using. All the answers are in the tables in the brb but the cable itself can take 1.45 of its rating for up to an hour before it begins to melt.

 

[telectrix]

i thought that was the characteristic of the overload device. 1.45x rated current for 1 hour before tripping.

 

[Paul.M]

This figure came from the cable manufactures so I've been informed, otherwise the cable would burn out before the overload protective device.

 

[telectrix]

i would assume that the safe limit for the cable before it was damaged was 1.45xI,for 1 hour so MCBs are designed to trip before the cable overheated.

 

[malcolmsanford]

This figure came from the cable manufactures so I've been informed, otherwise the cable would burn out before the overload protective device.

i would assume that the safe limit for the cable before it was damaged was 1.45xI,for 1 hour so MCBs are designed to trip before the cable overheated.

You 2 are clearly wasting my time so I'm never, I mean never going to post on this thread again ...............I mean it never ...............I'm going onw












I know your still looking but I really mean it ......................













Stop looking now ....................

 

[telectrix]

owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

 

[srands]

If my question is so ridiculously easy for you professional electricians/diyers (As available reference guides & equations either aren't complete, straight forward as they could be, or not really definitive or absolute), I realise nobody has answered my question, given the example, which socket wire (twin & earth), would you RING for the following circuit? (Summary: 3 skts total 32A, Metres total 60M's):

SKT D to A: 32A(TOTAL OF A+B+C), 20m's, Cumulative Count 0A
SKT A: 12A, AtoB 15m's, Cumulative Count 12A
SKT B: 14A, BtoC 20m's, Cumulative Count 26A
SKT C: 6A, CtoD 5m's, Cumulative Count 32A
see Spreadsheet example:

SO WHAT SKT WIRE/CABLE/TWIN&EARTH WOULD YOU USE ON THIS CIRCUIT, FOR A RING MAIN?
I bet none of you "pro leccy's" haven't got a serious suggestion for this simple example.

The only real question here is what is adequate SOCKET WIRE (Twin & Earth) for specific RING circuitS, two options (most recognised standards):

i) IEE 17th Edition Pg 44, 1.5mm or 2.5mm RINGED is adequate UPTO 32A only.
Which maybe OK for some house KITCHEN RING, but many may be greater then 32A. 4mm RING, 6mm RING, are the terminals big enough? (Yes, I know if it isn't, a length of socket wire, supply, load, is that skt wire AMPAGE ok).
The only other popular ring is SHOWER RING, 8KWp/h(33.3A) to 15KW p/h (62.5A) (These are averages, but obviously greater then 32A), guess TERMINALS on showers are big guess 4mm+ RINGED fits ok. Not every building has 1 shower, hence bigger fusebox/rcd/mcb, & not every building has sml kitchen: hotels, colleges, restaurants, so 1 big KITCHEN RING circuit or many MCBs.

ii) If AMPAGE greater then 32A, then the KIRCHOFF equation to work out the AMPAGE SPREAD OVER THE RING, then see which SOCKET WIRE (TWIN & EARTH) is adequate, is too bigger AMPAGE, next MCB, etc. However some variables have to be known (Or variables made up, as may not be known at this point!) the AMPAGE MAXIMUM at each socket and METRES distance between SOCKETS.
see Spreadsheet example:

Cheers

Stephan

RING AMP CALC: Add your comments/workings and upload/post

FUSEBOX MCB autocalc 3rd & 4th tab

ELEC GAS WATER autocalc 1st tab, scroll down


Also posted here without any success!:
http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...guide-per-socket-wire-thickness-ampage-4.html
http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...m-estimated-ampage-skt-wire-2.html#post241882
http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...g-just-cooker-hob-extractor-3.html#post241768


​

 

[Paul.M]

Deleted post, gave him the 5 mins that I promised.

 

[SMB]

I think ive got one of my 'heads' coming on.

 

[DurhamSparky]

the bloke is as useful as a NEON Screwdriver!

enough said..!

 

[telectrix]

nah, tools are useful.

 

[DurhamSparky]

just amended it lol

 

[Paul.M]

Srand. It's 4mm now stop asking the same question.

 

[telectrix]

makes me wonder why phony blair banned handguns

 

[Paul.M]

makes me wonder why phony blair banned handguns

We should use an electric chair but that would take 4 threads with the same question 9 times and a lot of copy and pasting from the internet. And that's just to figure out what size chair skt wire