Automatic disconnection of supply

[rich3009]

Why do we have a 30ma RCD if the result is a pass through of a massive current, it would make a mockery of it

 

[Amp David]

I know it's not true but based on that reg alone it states :

Basic Protection
Persons and livestock shall be protected against dangers that may arise from contact with live parts of the installation.

This protection can be achieved by one of the following methods:

1. Preventing a current passing through the body of any person or any livestock
2. Limiting the current which can pass through a body to a non-hazardous valve

Now taking that to the letter without referring to any other regulation an RCD does exactly that, this is a very poorly written regulation and would afford you great defence in court.

What would your rcd do if you decided to prod at line and neutral?

 

[Amp David]

I know it's not true but based on that reg alone it states :

Basic Protection
Persons and livestock shall be protected against dangers that may arise from contact with live parts of the installation.

This protection can be achieved by one of the following methods:

1. Preventing a current passing through the body of any person or any livestock
2. Limiting the current which can pass through a body to a non-hazardous valve

Now taking that to the letter without referring to any other regulation an RCD does exactly that, this is a very poorly written regulation and would afford you great defence in court.

What would your rcd do if you decided to prod at line and neutral?

 

[Amp David]

I know it's not true but based on that reg alone it states :

Basic Protection
Persons and livestock shall be protected against dangers that may arise from contact with live parts of the installation.

This protection can be achieved by one of the following methods:

1. Preventing a current passing through the body of any person or any livestock
2. Limiting the current which can pass through a body to a non-hazardous valve

Now taking that to the letter without referring to any other regulation an RCD does exactly that, this is a very poorly written regulation and would afford you great defence in court.

What would your rcd do if you decided to prod at line and neutral?

 

[rich3009]

Depends if you got any leakage to earth, failing that it would do nothing

 

[Risteard]

Why do we have a 30ma RCD if the result is a pass through of a massive current, it would make a mockery of it

It means that it will operate if there is a nominal 30mA earth fault current through it (between 0.5 and 1 times this in reality). So if you were in contact with a phase conductor and 30mA passed through your body it should operate. The 30mA rating has nothing to do with limiting the fault current to 30mA as this would defy Ohm's Law.

 

[Amp David]

Depends if you got any leakage to earth, failing that it would do nothing

Ok lets for the sake of this stupid thread lets presume theres no leakage, except in his y fronts

 

[rich3009]

I see so what's the point of that level, 30mA

 

[rich3009]

Ok lets for the sake of this stupid thread lets presume theres no leakage, except in his y fronts

Fair point no protection

 

[Risteard]

I see so what's the point of that level, 30mA

To protect human life.

It's not about limiting the current to 30mA but ensuring that it operates if 30mA is passing through - well actually 150mA for additional protection to operate within 40mS.

 

[rich3009]

To protect human life.

It's not about limiting the current to 30mA but ensuring that it operates if 30mA is passing through - well actually 150mA for additional protection to operate within 40mS.

But if the result is an instant huge fault current that starts way above that figure why have it, hence my argument that the fault current grows from zero and fast.. In milliseconds; but is nipped in the bud by the RCD before it gets the chance. Plus if your argument is true why doesn't a 500mA protect you.

 

[Spoon]

But if the result is an instant huge fault current that starts way above that figure why have it, hence my argument that the fault current grows from zero and fast.. In milliseconds; but is nipped in the bud by the RCD before it gets the chance. Plus if your argument is true why doesn't a 500mA protect you.

Electrical Safety: The Fatal Current - https://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~p616/safety/fatal_current.html

 

[rich3009]

The RCD limits the fault current that passes through your body by breaking the fault at 30mA any higher and your in deep

 

[rich3009]

Electrical Safety: The Fatal Current - https://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~p616/safety/fatal_current.html

Tells me nothing I don't already know

 

[The Ghost]

Must remind myself not to call you if I need electrical work doing.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

30mA RCDs are designed to trip when they detect earth leakage greater than 30mA.
Most will trip below this figure.
So if an RCD detects an earth fault current of 4600A, it will trip, and it will trip within 40ms.
An MCB will also trip if it detects a fault current of 4600A, though it is more likely to trip instantaneously or within 10ms.
Where RCDs are good, is that they will trip at lower currents which an MCB might not trip at, or may take seconds, minutes, hours or even days to trip.

So no, RCDs do not limit fault current, just as fuses and MCBs don’t limit fault current.

 

[rich3009]

Well I would like to know the science behind how it saves your life if it doesn't limit the current your body receives

 

[rich3009]

Explain the fault curve on a fuse chart if earth fault current doesn't grow with time. It shows how long it takes the fault to grow to a large enough magnitude to rupture the fuse. An RCD gets that curve chopped early. But by a means of imbalance measured via earth leakage

 

[rich3009]

Must remind myself not to call you if I need electrical work doing.

Wise because I'm a fireman

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Well I would like to know the science behind how it saves your life if it doesn't limit the current your body receives

Imagine you’re outside mowing your lawn with your hover mower.
The grass is damp, the cable is damp, you accidentally cut through the cable.
You make the mistake of picking up the damp live part of the cable.
You get a belt, you fall down and are unable to release the cable.
Because there’s no CPC in the cable and you’re outside, the fault path is via the general mass of the earth, which in your garden has a high resistance. So high in fact, that there is not enough current to cause the MCB to trip.
You manage to hang on to life for 20 mins, unfortunately it takes your partner 30 mins to wonder what you’re doing and come looking for you.
If there had been a working RCD, the power would have been cut off in 40ms, you’d have got a belt and your arm might ache for the rest of the day.

 

[rich3009]

Gotcha, still learning

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I was lucky once, or maybe I was sensible?
I borrowed a hover mower from a relative to mow my lawn.
I did not cut through the cable, but someone else had and made a botched repair.
I finished mowing, unplugged the cable near the mower and started winding the cable round my arm, walking back towards the socket in my out house.
The cable was damp and as I got near to the botched repair I got a belt.
Fortunately, the RCD socket I had installed in the out house tripped, though the one in the CU did not.

You’re not supposed to have RCDs in series, but I installed the socket before the CU was upgraded by the Council.
The difference between an RCD plug or socket and an RCD in a CU, is that every time the plug or socket is used, they are quite likely to be tested.
Whereas no one bothers testing the RCD in the CU.
Who wants the hassle of resetting the video, TV, stereo, cooker, etc.

 

[static zap]

Well I would like to know the science behind how it saves your life if it doesn't limit the current your body receives

..Only any good with 230-250V AC. to earth
It limits the time the shock is received for (if it works !-Not sticking)
, and you restrict the current (unless covered on Copper mesh !)
So you don't get one of those "gargling moment's" !

 

[MFS Electrical]

But it states you can achieve it by reducing the current to a non hazardous level I would like to know how, and if an RCD can't do it what can

A current limited power supply and not really much else...

 

[westward10]

30mA RCDs are designed to trip when they detect earth leakage greater than 30mA.
Most will trip below this figure.
So if an RCD detects an earth fault current of 4600A, it will trip, and it will trip within 40ms.
An MCB will also trip if it detects a fault current of 4600A, though it is more likely to trip instantaneously or within 10ms.
Where RCDs are good, is that they will trip at lower currents which an MCB might not trip at, or may take seconds, minutes, hours or even days to trip.

So no, RCDs do not limit fault current, just as fuses and MCBs don’t limit fault current.

Rcds are advertised to operate at 30ma but they are actually manufactured to function at 27 to 28ma. Manufacturers hedging their bets on that one

 

[westward10]

Well I would like to know the science behind how it saves your life if it doesn't limit the current your body receives

Never ever assume an rcd will save your life from being killed.

 

[rich3009]

Thanks for all the help I was just being pedantic but it's the best way to learn

 

[Richard Burns]

1. Preventing a current passing through the body of any person or any livestock
2. Limiting the current which can pass through a body to a non-hazardous value

An RCD functions to disconnect before most fatal events occur in accordance with the below graph, the disconnection time is such that the human body should be able to withstand the expected fault current flowing through the body for that duration without death, but not without pain and reaction, in most cases.
To prevent a current flowing or to limit the current to a non hazardous value would be achieved by non conducting locations, SELV or electrical separation. However the primary means of preventing a current is to make sure that conductors are not accessible to touch in the first place.

 

[rich3009]

Fantastic clear answer thank you

 

[Amp David]

Wise because I'm a fireman

That might be the problem then. Thought it was window cleaning you boys did on the side not sparkying