bonding of main water plastic incoming

[jimmy]

This topic drives me nuts.
Do I need to main bond.
Property is 2 years old and wasnt done but my foreman wants it done.
Plastic income to stopcock under sink. Runs from stop cock to kitchen sink and boiler above that in copper and washing machine. 3 m ish in total of copper.
Rest of plumbing in plastic

 

[SBSB]

No, if incomer is plastic then the plumbing is not classed as an extraneous conductive part.

 

[Spoon]

Hi jimmy. welcome to the forum.
Have you tried doing a search for this bonding question? It has been asked quite a few times.
I know my comments dont sound helpful but do a search first.

 

[jimmy]

Cheers spoon will do.

 

[44ALLAN]

And come back and tell us the for and against lol

 

[telectrix]

IR test the copper to the MET . as long as the reading is >22kohms, it's not extraneous. must be over 100 posts with this subject done to death.

 

[44ALLAN]

But disconnect your boiler and your washing machine earth before you test the pipe to the MET lol

I'll get me coat

 

[telectrix]

good point.

 

[44ALLAN]

good point.

Ta

 

[Geordie Spark]

This topic has become so popular it has its own signature tune:

Average White Band - Let's Go Round Again (1980) - YouTube

 

[44ALLAN]

Should that not be Average Multi-coloured Band?

 

[Geordie Spark]

Should that not be Average Multi-coloured Band?

Well I think they were around before all this Political Correctness and Trades Descriptions Act reared their ugly heads.

 

[44ALLAN]

Poor Golliwog and Milky bar kid got the axe though !!

Idiots:crazy:

 

[telectrix]

" i see a red door and i want to paint it black".

 

[SirKit Breaker]

How about an easy fix. make plastic out of copper, job done.

 

[telectrix]

better still. make plastic out of plumbers.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Poor Golliwog and Milky bar kid got the axe though !!

Idiots:crazy:

Do you remember the the Golliwogs on the jars of jam?

If you collected the labels (can't remember how many) and posted them to the jam maker, they would send you an enamelled badge of the Golliwog.

 

[telectrix]

i remember them. i had a few enamel badges as a kid. also has an esso tiger tail on my bike.

 

[Geordie Spark]

i remember them. i had a few enamel badges as a kid. also has an esso tiger tail on my bike.

Did you have an enamelled Penguin badge?

I did, but I'm not sure if it had anything to do with the Penguin biscuits & was just wondering.

 

[44ALLAN]

I collected Playboy magazines................u two were late developers it seems

 

[Geordie Spark]

I collected Playboy magazines................u too were late developers it seems

I collected "Health and Efficiency" (I think that was the title) and "Parade".

 

[44ALLAN]

Parade.............now your talking :drool5:

 

[chopper76]

All this ir test from met to water pipe is nonsense, the pipe is full of water an is connected to your neighbours property, whose water pipe is either connected to an equipotential bond or an earthed immersion and boiler which is in turn connected to met and back to transformer, I have never done this test and won the saving of my 10mm and earth clamp, bond it, tick it on the form n forget it

 

[44ALLAN]

All this ir test from met to water pipe is nonsense, the pipe is full of water an is connected to your neighbours property, whose water pipe is either connected to an equipotential bond or an earthed immersion and boiler which is in turn connected to met and back to transformer, I have never done this test and won the saving of my 10mm and earth clamp, bond it, tick it on the form n forget it.

Yup well done mate...............you need to patent that idea to be honest.
Street equipotential bonding............could be a winner mate go with it !

Watch out for plastic incomers at your neighbors tho u might kill your kids
Harsh but true I'm afraid

 

[D Skelton]

No, if incomer is plastic then the plumbing is not classed as an extraneous conductive part.

Only a test can confirm whether something is an extraneous conductive part or not, plastic may not be conductive but the water inside it is!

It's this type of attitude that gets on my jubblies!

 

[chopper76]

Thanks mr. Skelton , sounds like Alan was away from school on electrical conductivity day, like to see him do an ir test under water, you bond it at 600 or at the most accessible part even if its a small section going in to the megaflow, you still need ADS when the immersion heater shorts to earth!, don't fancy getting into the bath when that happens or is water not conductive now?

 

[44ALLAN]

Lol..........dear me

Can I invest in this water earth clamp you've patented ffs lmao !

Just to clarify btw.
You would bond a plastic pipe because it had water in it?

mmmmmm nice one mate I like it

 

[Engineer54]

How on earth do these people get to be registered as competent??

 

[D Skelton]

Just to clarify btw.
You would bond a plastic pipe because it had water in it?

Of course not, but SBSB said if the incomer is plastic then the PLUMBING isn't an extraneous conductive part. I would test the metal pipework nearest to the connection to the plastic incomer and if extraneous; bond.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

The big problem with the 22k IR test has already been pointed out......parallel paths. Even disconnecting earth wires from boilers and immersion heaters etc might not eliminate them. The gas pipe will be connected to the boiler intoducing a parallel path,do you disconnect that?
I've given up with IR testing copper fed from plastic to confirm if it is an ECP,only if I can visually confirm that the copper has no possibility of PP's would I bother. Otherwise unless the copper is very short I assume it's going to be extraneous and bond.

 

[D Skelton]

Just remove the main earthing conductor from the MET as if you were measuring Ze and test between that (the earth) and the pipe. No parallell paths then.

 

[44ALLAN]

Of course not, but SBSB said if the incomer is plastic then the PLUMBING isn't an extraneous conductive part. I would test the metal pipework nearest to the connection to the plastic incomer and if extraneous; bond.

Sorry mate that wasn't directed at you lol

 

[D Skelton]

Oops, sorry lol

 

[44ALLAN]

Oops, sorry lol.

Haha............I was responding post 23 and the gem of a post 26 mate.
Megaflows and ADS etc.
Seems you don't need to Bond incoming services anymore as the neighbours will do it for you :shocked:

Obviously a windup................I hope !

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Just remove the main earthing conductor from the MET as if you were measuring Ze and test between that (the earth) and the pipe. No parallell paths then.

Yes there are. You are likely to get parallel paths from other extraneous services such as gas/oil which are mechanically connected to the same system as the water via boilers etc and not practical to remove.Disconnecting main earths and bonds still does not eliminate misleading readings.

 

[D Skelton]

That's assuming other services have been bonded, which if they have and it is affecting the water then bonding it anyway isn't going to do any harm. If the bonds are affecting the water so much that you get a 0.05 - 0.06 reading then some would argue that it would be safe to assume a bond is already in place and to leave it and crack on.

 

[kevyn]

A local firm in my area have just had the nic crawling all over them because they didn't run a main bond to the water main. Incoming pipe was plastic covered copper, rest of houses in plastic (scheme).
I would still run a bond and connect it on to the stop valve, this would satisfy the sheets, regs, and any electrician who looks at it.

 

[drew35]

If in doubt bond that Mo Fo.

If told to do it by the foreman do it and when questioned say that Mo Fo told me to do it!

 

[Spoon]

If told to do it by the foreman do it and when questioned say that Mo Fo told me to do it!

Do you do everything a foreman tells you to do???

 

[Deleted member 9648]

That's assuming other services have been bonded, which if they have and it is affecting the water then bonding it anyway isn't going to do any harm. If the bonds are affecting the water so much that you get a 0.05 - 0.06 reading then some would argue that it would be safe to assume a bond is already in place and to leave it and crack on.

You miss the point mate,existing bonding has nothing to do with it. If a gas pipe (for example) is extraneous,it will be at earth potential or thereabouts whether it is bonded or not.There is likely to be some electrical continuity to the water system via mechanical connection between pipework at a boiler even with all bonds/earth disconnected. Thats why the IR test to establish whether bonding is required is nearly always misleading.....(IMO!)