- Thread starter Elecmox
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Elecmox
DIY
It's too expensive.
Elecmox
DIY
It's more cheaper to buy solder iron and solder then to buy crimp tool.
But, I have read on one forum for car speakers: "The reason I used crimp connectors is I found the factory wire seemed liked it had been burnt and I couldn't get a solder joint"
What can this be? Has wire oxidized maybe?
But, I have read on one forum for car speakers: "The reason I used crimp connectors is I found the factory wire seemed liked it had been burnt and I couldn't get a solder joint"
What can this be? Has wire oxidized maybe?
Normal copper wire (or tinned copper) is easy to solder if you have any skill in that area.
But sometimes you find cheaper stuff being used. Aluminium wire is hard to solder, and you also see copper wire spiralled around a thread for earphones which is also practically impossible to solder.
Crimping is quick and very reliable (more so than screw connections) if you use the correct tool. By time you bought the cheap and useless crimp tool, a soldering iron, solder, and practised soldering and not burning your fingers, you could probably have bought something like this for US $12.79:
Hilka Ratchet Crimper tool for Crimping insulated red blue yellow Terminals | eBay
Hilka Professional Ratchet Crimping Plier tool for Insulated Red, Blue and Yellow Terminals. Designed with extra large moulded hand grips and a one handed ratchet Crimp operation for ease of use and comfort. Hardened steel jaws and precision action guarantees professional Crimping Why mess...
www.ebay.com
If you simply need to join two wires, and you do not need a push-on terminal or ring tag, then just use some Wago terminals or a screw terminal block. You can probably get them in Serbia no problem but I don't know where to look and not everywhere sells them in small numbers. Here is a UK example:
Wago 221 Series 32A 2-Way Lever Connectors 100 Pack - Screwfix
Order online at Screwfix.com. Transparent, reusable connectors for solid, stranded and flexible cables. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.
Debox 24A In-line Junction Box 50 x 102 x 28.5mm White - Screwfix
Order online at Screwfix.com. UL94 V0 Flame-retardant polypropylene. 4-pole 24A terminal block. Suitable for flat or round cable up to 4mm². Supplied with spare butterfly clip. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.
Last edited:
Elecmox
DIY
Last one seems like a good option, I saw that one today, but without cover box. I'll look at it.Normal copper wire (or tinned copper) is easy to solder if you have any skill in that area.
But sometimes you find cheaper stuff being used. Aluminium wire is hard to solder, and you also see copper wire spiralled around a thread for earphones which is also practically impossible to solder.
Crimping is quick and very reliable (more so than screw connections) if you use the correct tool. By time you bought the cheap and useless crimp tool, a soldering iron, solder, and practised soldering and not burning your fingers, you could probably have bought something like this for US $12.79:
Hilka Ratchet Crimper tool for Crimping insulated red blue yellow Terminals | eBay
Hilka Professional Ratchet Crimping Plier tool for Insulated Red, Blue and Yellow Terminals. Designed with extra large moulded hand grips and a one handed ratchet Crimp operation for ease of use and comfort. Hardened steel jaws and precision action guarantees professional Crimping Why mess...www.ebay.com
If you simply need to join two wires, and you do not need a push-on terminal or ring tag, then just use some Wago terminals or a screw terminal block. You can probably get them in Serbia no problem but I don't know where to look and not everywhere sells them in small numbers. Here is a UK example:
Wago 221 Series 32A 2-Way Lever Connectors 100 Pack - Screwfix
Order online at Screwfix.com. Transparent, reusable connectors for solid, stranded and flexible cables. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.www.screwfix.com
Debox 24A In-line Junction Box 50 x 102 x 28.5mm White - Screwfix
Order online at Screwfix.com. UL94 V0 Flame-retardant polypropylene. 4-pole 24A terminal block. Suitable for flat or round cable up to 4mm². Supplied with spare butterfly clip. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.
Ratchet crimp that you suggested cost about 25 Euros here, due to customs and shipping.
Elecmox
DIY
I think this is what you suggested, I can buy 2 pieces Spojnica WAGO 221-412, 2 kontakta, 4kvmm :: MikroPrinc - https://www.mikroprinc.com/sr/proizvod/spojnica-wago-221-412-2-kontakta-4kvmm
Just speaker wires.. Just twist em together that's what I used to do with no issue. If I couldn't find insulation tape I would use a bit of sellotape instead. Sounded great!
The problems with the plier type crimpers that many places sell is that they simply don't work. People sell them because people will buy them, not because they are any good 
And people will buy them because they are labelled as "crimp tool" and they are cheap.
The main reason they don't work is that they do not properly squash the terminal down. A "decent" crimp will close the hole in such that the strands are subject to pressure from all around - done right the pressure is so high that the joint is "gas tight" (oxygen can't get in and corrode the faces of the metal). If you look at the ratchet tools people have been pointing you to, they constrain the sides of the terminal so it can't spread, and thus they close up the hole nicely.
These cheap pliers simply squash the terminal hole into an oval - leaving the strands free to migrate outwards with limited pressure on the faces that do meet. This is compounded by ---- poor geometry that means anyone less than an 800lb gorilla will not get anything like the pressure needed to create anything resembling a crimped connection. I do have a pair in my box (that I bought maaaaany years ago before I knew better), they don't get used for crimping terminals - actually they rarely come out at all and just live in a box of terminals as I'd gain nothing by throwing them out of it.
I can tell you from bitter experience, the pain of unreliable crimped connections is to be avoided. Maaany years ago I sort-of rewire my old Escort - and guess what, "crimped" many connections. I was constantly plagued by random faults caused by bad joints - including the large yellow crimp where the main power feed came off the starter solenoid
And people will buy them because they are labelled as "crimp tool" and they are cheap.The main reason they don't work is that they do not properly squash the terminal down. A "decent" crimp will close the hole in such that the strands are subject to pressure from all around - done right the pressure is so high that the joint is "gas tight" (oxygen can't get in and corrode the faces of the metal). If you look at the ratchet tools people have been pointing you to, they constrain the sides of the terminal so it can't spread, and thus they close up the hole nicely.
These cheap pliers simply squash the terminal hole into an oval - leaving the strands free to migrate outwards with limited pressure on the faces that do meet. This is compounded by ---- poor geometry that means anyone less than an 800lb gorilla will not get anything like the pressure needed to create anything resembling a crimped connection. I do have a pair in my box (that I bought maaaaany years ago before I knew better), they don't get used for crimping terminals - actually they rarely come out at all and just live in a box of terminals as I'd gain nothing by throwing them out of it.
I can tell you from bitter experience, the pain of unreliable crimped connections is to be avoided. Maaany years ago I sort-of rewire my old Escort - and guess what, "crimped" many connections. I was constantly plagued by random faults caused by bad joints - including the large yellow crimp where the main power feed came off the starter solenoid
Can't you get a smaller butt crimp?
Elecmox
DIY
No, that's the smallest I could find.
they are OK, but have been superceded by the more compact 221 series.
Elecmox
DIY
Yes, I know, they are smaller and better.
As an aside, CoP11 for installation of LPG conversions in vehicles prohibits crimping of terminals - they have to be soldered. For the reasons made obvious in this thread - it's just so very easy to make "rubbish" crimps, and "a bit easier" to glue things together with solder.
Elecmox
DIY
Soldering can go wrong either, but I guess LPG can't afford bad crimp connections for obvious reasons.
Probably not the obvious reasons you are thinking of - LPG (basically commercial propane) is highly flammable, but it's completely contained.
It really is down to stopping people doing conversions with wrongly sized terminals "crimped" using the cheap plier type of tool. With soldering, at least if you get it stuck in the first place, it's most likely going to stay stuck. If you don't get it stuck, then it's normally obvious as the terminal drops off the wire between soldering and crimping the strain relief.
It really is down to stopping people doing conversions with wrongly sized terminals "crimped" using the cheap plier type of tool. With soldering, at least if you get it stuck in the first place, it's most likely going to stay stuck. If you don't get it stuck, then it's normally obvious as the terminal drops off the wire between soldering and crimping the strain relief.
Elecmox
DIY
If those stupid crimp tools aren't so ridiculously expensive, people wouldn't use cheap bad pliers. I mean seriously, 50 Euros or pounds for simple piece of metal? C'mon, for 50 Euros I'll buy mobile phone.
Yeah but a mobile phone will only crimp yer wallet
get me a samsung galaxy A70 then. i give you 100 eurines.
seriously though, with tools, you get what you pay for. mine were £65, but i know i can rely on them. even a decent pair of wire cutters will set you back £30.
Elecmox
DIY
Because that's the real price! OK, not 2 but maximum 10. More then that it's a legal rip off.
In this era of boil in the bag Sparkies, I agree, the general public are very gullible when it come to hiring trades people, as I found out when I was working away overseas, and my Wife was having problems with electrics, plumbing etc, if only She had the names and addresses of the guilty.
[automerge]1590940650[/automerge]
You could always employ someone who had the tools and expertise to do the job property, you get nothing for nothing in this life?
Elecmox
DIY
Here in Serbia you can buy for 50 Euros (5.990 serbian dinars) Alcatel 5" with Android 8.0 Alcatel 1C DS Crni 5", QC 1.3GHz/1GB/8GB/8&5Mpix/Android 8.0 - https://www.winwin.rs/mobilni-i-fiksni-telefoni/mobilni-telefoni/smart-mobilni-telefoni/smart-telefon-alcatel-1c-ds-crni-5-qc-1-3ghz-1gb-8gb-8-5mpix-android-8-0-8656624.html
Elecmox
DIY
I'll not pay for crimping one wire a 5 euros as I didn't. I am sick of people overcharging stupid jobs. As I said, I bought solder iron, solder and holder for 7 euros and solder wires for myself. I did the job, and I learned soldering for future.
D
davesparks
£50 for a decent set of crimper is relatively cheap, considering they should last many years and will make thousands of good connections.
Elecmox
DIY
Really, you think crimper is worth as a mobile phone? I wonder if someone would trade mobile phone for a crimper!?
This crimper costs 25 Euros, but I don't know if they are good. Kelco - Detalji proizvoda - Krimp klešta za izolovane flah papučice, hilzne... - http://www.kelco.rs/katalog/detalji.php?ID=10664
D
davesparks
There is no comparison between a crimper an a mobile phone, they are not equivalent items in any way.
I doubt anyone would trade a mobile phone for a crimper, but then I doubt that anyone would trade a mobile phone for anything else of similar value.
Good quality tools are worth a lot of money, I buy good quality tools and they make my job quicker an easier so that I make more money.
If I spend £50 on a crimper and it lasts me 5 years that is better value than spending £20 on a crimper that only lasts me 1 year.
I think if I totalled up all of the different types of crimper I own I've probably spent a few thousand pounds over the years.
not if it costs more than 7 eourosThis thread is brilliant
Elecmox
DIY
I have a pliers that I bought for 5 Euros that lasts 15 years, price is not the only measurement of quality, but that's not the point I am talking about.
My point about this specific tool is that they are just pliers shaped for one function that is not so complex and that they are charging it outrageously expensive and that is a rip off.
I am comparing complexity of mobile phone with all engineering and design built into it with pliers that is just shaped iron cast. I am showing an example of how people are ripped off with such tools. For me there is no reason that they should cost more then 10 euros.
D
davesparks
Yes, I'm sure we've all got very old tools which were bought cheaply, that doesn't necessarily mean they are in good condition or performing as well as they did when they were new.
Good crimper are not just a pair of specially shaped pliers!
Good crimpers have a calibrated mechnaism to provide a specific amount of pressure, and precision made dies to provide exactly the right shape to the crimp.
Elecmox
DIY
OK, I'll rise the max price to 15 Euros. Give me valid reasons for the rest 35 Euros.
D
davesparks
I haven't even seen the £50 crimper being discussed here so don't know if it would be worth it or not.
For reference the crimper I have for red/blue/yellow crimps was about £85 about 6 years ago, it has served me well and as far as I know none of the connections I haveade with it have failed.
Elecmox
DIY
I just can't justify that kind of price for such item. I understand that is usefull and all that, but I just can't accept that kind of price/function ratio.
ho like those but any suggestions for uninsulated up to 16mm?
Elecmox
DIY
Yes, but Ferrari is not worth it also.
D
davesparks
SWA (specialised wiring accessories, not the cable) do a good range of crimping tools at sensible prices.
I'm pretyy sure they are badge engineered copies of old BICC designs but I've never yet had a problem using them.
I've got the hex crimper which does 6 through 50mm uninsulated crimps and the indent crimper which does 6mm to 25mm (though I don't know where that one is at the moment)
I use these from Davico or they’re a rebranded version, perfect form factor as they are small and fit in a tool bag quite nicely as a lot of crimpers that go up to 16mm tend to be the larger boltcroper looking ones. Only downside is you need a little more wrist power ?
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