Door holdback operated by stand alone smoke detector.

[Doomed]

Been asked to install a magnetic door holdback that will be released by a smoke detector that is NOT wired into the main fire alarm panel.
I know I could cobble together my own setup with a relay and bits, but does anyone know of a pack to fulfill my needs?

 

[lecsleaford]

Aico do a relay base for their domestic alarms.

 

[Leesparkykent]

As above ^ http://www.aico.co.uk/dmdocuments/ei128r datasheet.pdf

 

[Darkwood]

Who is asking this to be done.
What is the nature of the premises.

If this is not a private domestic job then be very careful and as you expressed its not connected to the Alarm panel I assume this isn't domestic.

I think Tazz may be the man to answer here before you decide to do this, he's the man for fire systems and their safety requirements.

 

[tazz]

Doomed, when you mention door holdback.....Is this a door leading to a vent shaft or emergency exit for public.?

 

[onions1066]

Get one of these. Surely the simplest solution

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4

 

[tazz]

Ohhh the fire officers worst hate....The Dorgard, banned in most nursing homes and hotels lol

 

[onions1066]

I didn't realise he had stated the location. I think they are a good idea for some situations. Don't get me wrong they aren't the best i agree

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[Doomed]

Who is asking this to be done.
What is the nature of the premises.

If this is not a private domestic job then be very careful and as you expressed its not connected to the Alarm panel I assume this isn't domestic.

I think Tazz may be the man to answer here before you decide to do this, he's the man for fire systems and their safety requirements.

Fire officer request in a room with only a high heat detector that the staff prop open - laundry room

 

[Doomed]

Doomed, when you mention door holdback.....Is this a door leading to a vent shaft or emergency exit for public.?

Laundry room that the staff prop open

 

[Doomed]

Ohhh the fire officers worst hate....The Dorgard, banned in most nursing homes and hotels lol

Correct, the fire officer said no to this.

 

[tazz]

Doom you can used magnetic door holder, or overhead door retainer...both available in mains or 24v versions. and interface into any existing fire alarm or Aico relay.
Important thing is if the premises has a laundry, surely it requires a fire alarm system throughout the building.? what is the building used for.?

 

[Spoon]

Hi tazz. Just out of interest, how come the Dorguard have been banned in most nursing homes and hotels?

 

[tazz]

Because they rely on sound pressure to operate, they can be a bit hit & miss, and the batteries also don`t last that long. Since 2014 the regs on Nursing homes & hotels, have become quite strict. Addressable panels must now be installed, on new installations, electric door retainers in corridors, strobe lighting in Public areas & rooms etc.

 

[Spoon]

Thanks for that tazz. I didn't know what they were so I Googled them. They sell them at screwfix and it states that they are "Accepted by the Fire Brigade".

 

[tazz]

We use a lot of Geze door retainers in hotels, nursing homes & schools....they look a lot neater than magnetic holders, and can be opened into any position along the 90 deg angle....Alot more money tho.
Geze Ts4000E Size 2-6 Electromagnetic Hold Open Door Closer Silver

 

[Doomed]

Doom you can used magnetic door holder, or overhead door retainer...both available in mains or 24v versions. and interface into any existing fire alarm or Aico relay.
Important thing is if the premises has a laundry, surely it requires a fire alarm system throughout the building.? what is the building used for.?

It is a care home and has an addressable system. There is a high heat detector in the laundry room connected to the system. At the moment the staff often prop open the door and the fire brigade have pulled them up on this.
They have been told that they can have a magnetic door holdback that is operated by a stand alone mains powered detector.
The reason for not interfacing the door with the existing system is that they say that the high heat detectors may be slow to react and therefore slow to shut the door. Also they do not suggest changing the laundry detector to a smoke due to the possible increase in false alarms.

Quite a reasonable fire officer I thought.
I will go with the aico base and detector controlling the magnet.

Thanks for all your input.

 

[tazz]

I can see were he`s coming from to lessen false alarms, but the Aico are low temp 45-50 deg I think. So the door will be shutting quite often, plus the noise from the Aico will be missleading.
Would suggest 2 ways, 1 replacing existing with multi sensor, and control door off addressable system.
2. fitting second detector, onto addressable system with cause & effect to just closed door, and non latching. This will have no noise or sounders and will self reset.

 

[Doomed]

Didn't think about the different sounder noise - good call
The fire officer said use a smoke detector to activate to door, so I was going to use the aico smoke head.

How about the aico smoke detector with the sounder cut out?

 

[tazz]

Possible, but the cause & effect on the addressable panel will do what ever you want it to

 

[Doomed]

Am trying to avoid touching the panel if possible as another company has the contact fo maintaining it, so I don't want to risk the 'they touched it last' possible scenarios.

 

[tazz]

Just had an idea, which is even cheaper than Aico and must better.....Give me 10 mins to test it on the bench, to make sure it works...!

 

[tazz]

ok used a 24v power supply, Apollo S65 detector, and apollo S65 relay base.
connect the door mag holder neg supply through the relay base contacts (com & nc)
Power the s65 base L1 neg 24v , L2 Plus 24v.
If the Apollo activates it will release the door Mag....
Have just tested on bench with Apollo smoke all ok. Door Mag only draws 45mA, so a 24v 1A power supply will work fine. Apollo detector is about £8-9,

 

[Darkwood]

This is Tazz at this moment Sorry Tazz the pic was just too tempting lol

 

[Doomed]

ok used a 24v power supply, Apollo S65 detector, and apollo S65 relay base.
connect the door mag holder neg supply through the relay base contacts (com & nc)
Power the s65 base L1 neg 24v , L2 Plus 24v.
If the Apollo activates it will release the door Mag....
Have just tested on bench with Apollo smoke all ok. Door Mag only draws 45mA, so a 24v 1A power supply will work fine. Apollo detector is about £8-9,

This is going above and beyond the normal help levels - Thank You!