No earth in lighting circuit what next?

[Elliott96]

Im sure this has probably been asked before in this forum but ive just upgraded a fuseboard today and found no earth in the lighting (two core). Obviously the next thing to do would be to tell the customer either rewire or change everything on that circuit to class 2 fittings and accessories, but in this case the customer didnt want to go ahead with either.... what should i do? Cutting the circuit out would be abit extreme?

 

[Midwest]

I’ve done it.
Made a visual inspection, run a few tests and asked some questions.
Then turned round and said they don’t need a new CU.

Each to their own. I changed a few light bulbs for Mrs Miggins and never charged her. Trump that.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Interesting post this. I’ve only just started consumer unit change outs.

I have one due very soon - it’s taken me two days so far to test, fault find and rectify. Things like this NE fault on a lighting circuit as shown in image above (Light was still working!). Other faults as well.... a bit of a list.

I just want a full schedule of good test results before swapping out. Dangerous faults found were found and rectified before re-energising. I’ve still a couple of further investigations to carry out.

Then again my customer is very understanding. The vast majority of the wiring is in good condition. He is saving thousands by getting repairs instead of a rewire.

I can’t imagine swapping a CU and ‘hoping for the best’. (Comment not aimed at the OP - but if I’m honest - am taking his dilemma as reinforcement on my desire to thoroughly test first).

Good luck to Elliott.

 

[Andy78]

Each to their own. I changed a few light bulbs for Mrs Miggins and never charged her. Trump that.

But did she give you one of her famous pies ?

 

[Midwest]

But did she give you one of her famous pies ?

Nope, just some brown grit in hot water.

 

[ruston]

View attachment 47704 Interesting post this. I’ve only just started consumer unit change outs.

I have one due very soon - it’s taken me two days so far to test, fault find and rectify. Things like this NE fault on a lighting circuit as shown in image above (Light was still working!). Other faults as well.... a bit of a list.

I just want a full schedule of good test results before swapping out. Dangerous faults found were found and rectified before re-energising. I’ve still a couple of further investigations to carry out.

Then again my customer is very understanding. The vast majority of the wiring is in good condition. He is saving thousands by getting repairs instead of a rewire.

I can’t imagine swapping a CU and ‘hoping for the best’. (Comment not aimed at the OP - but if I’m honest - am taking his dilemma as reinforcement on my desire to thoroughly test first).

Good luck to Elliott.

Being on site could you actually see how they managed to get that nail through that second cable , obviously it must have been trapped, but how have they hammered the nail in in the first place?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I think the floorboard has been lifted and flipped over.

 

[ruston]

I think the floorboard has been lifted and flipped over.

Yes obvious now you point it out . I need more bananas today .

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Yes obvious now you point it out . I need more bananas today .

Carrots.
It’s carrots for eyes, not certain what bananas are for.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

I think the floorboard has been lifted and flipped over.

Correct. Yes. I pulled up the floorboard to look for the fault beneath, and the fault came up with the board!

Nail was straight through neutral and earth on both cables.

 

[ruston]

Carrots.
It’s carrots for eyes, not certain what bananas are for.

Ross Braun when he was in the pit lane for Ferrari used to eat at least two bananas during the race .
The potassium is supposed to be good for the brain. But not in my case.

 

[alasdairp]

It was unprofessional and unthinking to do the CU change without a check on CPCs (etc) in the first place. As members have said you could see this just by looking at the wiring in the old fuse box. However, now I would suggest replacing all metal light switches with plastic ones at your time and expense (that would not cost much) and stick warning notices (clearly visible but not enormous) on all metal light fittings (that are rarely touched) saying "Danger of electrocution - not Earthed - do not touch" and take photos of them for the record. It would be wrong to re-energise unearthed metal light switches that are regularly touched. That would be my approach now.

 

[peterhyper]

It was unprofessional and unthinking to do the CU change without a check on CPCs (etc) in the first place. As members have said you could see this just by looking at the wiring in the old fuse box. However, now I would suggest replacing all metal light switches with plastic ones at your time and expense (that would not cost much) and stick warning notices (clearly visible but not enormous) on all metal light fittings (that are rarely touched) saying "Danger of electrocution - not Earthed - do not touch" and take photos of them for the record. It would be wrong to re-energise unearthed metal light switches that are regularly touched. That would be my approach now.

Using the term 'unprofessional' might be going a bit far. You might check every single light switch and light fitting before quoting to fit a consumer unit but you are in a minority, and I guess you also go up into the loft to check the light switch and light fitting is earthed. I wonder if you also check the exterior lights to ensure they have an earth before quoting even if it's pelting down.

So when the customer says they don't want your cheap looking plastic light switches because their lovely shiny chrome ones look much classier, would you stick labels on every light switch stating "danger of electrocution'?

Looking at the wiring in a fusebox is no guarantee everything will be earthed.

 

[delano]

So you do a full detailed check of every circuit, every socket, every light switch, every light fitting etc before you replace a consumer unit?

If necessary, yes.

 

[Midwest]

However, now I would suggest replacing all metal light switches with plastic ones at your time and expense (that would not cost much) and stick warning notices (clearly visible but not enormous) on all metal light fittings (that are rarely touched) saying "Danger of electrocution - not Earthed - do not touch" and take photos of them for the record. It would be wrong to re-energise unearthed metal light switches that are regularly touched.

If you care to read the BPG linked in this thread, you'll see that Electrical Safety First suggest doing what you've suggested, is not an option in a domestic property. They are referring to reg 412.1.5, which in my yellow copy is 412.1.3, I believe.

Edit, and even if the OP has dropped a clanger, as some suggest, its not his responsibility to rectify at his own expensive, something that existed before the replacement of the CU.

Your not the first to suggest this FOC thing, but its not his work that is faulty, so to suggest such, is frankly absurd from a business point of view.

 

[Pete999]

If you care to read the BPG linked in this thread, you'll see that Electrical Safety First suggest doing what you've suggested, is not an option in a domestic property. They are referring to reg 412.1.5, which in my yellow copy is 412.1.3, I believe.

Edit, and even if the OP has dropped a clanger, as some suggest, its not his responsibility to rectify at his own expensive, something that existed before the replacement of the CU.

Your not the first to suggest this FOC thing, but its not his work that is faulty, so to suggest such, is frankly absurd from a business point of view.

Right Ok but it will be his responsibility, not to have checked any prospective faults out to the client in the first place, )I don't want to pay for any pre inspections before hand, and expecting the Sparky to carry this cost should there be any faults is downright stupid in my book.

 

[Midwest]

Right Ok but it will be his responsibility, not to have checked any prospective faults out to the client in the first place, )I don't want to pay for any pre inspections before hand, and expecting the Sparky to carry this cost should there be any faults is downright stupid in my book.

I don't quite follow your post Pete. Don't want to disagree with you, if your agreeing with me?

 

[magnoliafan89]

Each to their own. I changed a few light bulbs for Mrs Miggins and never charged her. Trump that.

Ive just got back from doing 4 hours work at my nans....still took payment....

 

[Midwest]

Ive just got back from doing 4 hours work at my nans....still took payment....

You tight -------

 

[Midwest]

What he meant was, Nan gave him an apple pie and a nice bottle of homemade wine.

 

[Toneyz]

It is either 1. rewire of the lighting circuit(s).
2.additional earth installed
3.all fittings are plastic.
if the customer refuses then the circuit cannot be connected.
if the customer wants to connect once you have compleated and certified that is his own risk.