T
T0ny
Hi all, great site and sorry for the long post - I'm after some advice as I don't have total confidence in the 4 sparkies I've currently used with regards to the test results on my cert. That said I am not a sparky and if I'm being a total muppet please tell me - I can take it 
Basically I bought an old property and it was renovated. The property is 1940's It had lead wiring left over, tin wiring left over, some red n black left over and looks like it was re-wired around about the time the colours changed from what the sparks told me.
Everything has been rewired again by 2 sparks. The CU was a 10 way split load board and has been changed to a 17th board, 12 way 2 rcd (30ma) all breakers type b.
The meter has a PME (series 7) was in when I bought it, no prior certs - overhead cables. Meter is internal ie not in meter box outside.
The install and cert were completed by a qualified spark, he is returning at some point to upgrade one circuit which is about 7yr old, this was not accessible at the time. I have read the 17th and osg and in all honesty it seems he's done everything mint and even above ie 16mm earth bonds to gas n water, and all pipes cross bonded. LV in bathroom, board is balance well and well though out. The only junction boxes are on lights these are MF. Oven and Hob on separate circuits. All cables in oval and basket trays in ceiling. All terminations in MK boxes. To my layman eyes the design and work looks mint. Also another lad I know is a spark and he works away, he called over at the end of the first fix and second and said fair play the work is great. So I was happy.
However when it came to testing and the cert is where I've lost confidence. Here is my problems.
First of all I'm not 100% sure of the PME. It has a PME sticker from supplier and a section for the earth cutout by fuse), the tags are missing from the fuse section and tails. I spoke to a western power guy when I was out and about, just picking brains and he said - mate that's the norm as any sparky working on a job will often cut the tag and take the fuse with them so its not just isolated but some clown doesn't come and hit the power back on for their trade to see. If he had his way he'd leave that tag off he said. Which was what the sparks said to me as well, and the lad I know who works away. Makes sense.
However when I seen on the cert that the Ze is 0.45 then I thought well it should be lower for pme, even though I read here there is no legal limit. So part of me is thinking when the place had the split load board they, just clipped the tags and installed the pme because both the tag on the fuse and on the tails section is missing, but the meter (dial) one is still there.
From what I gather the street looks like most are on TT or worse they've just ripped the rod out and thrown down a patio or drive! Going to try and nose in some houses meet the neighbours and see if they are connected to PME. I can't confirm yet but will get nosey
So my first question is this, is this safe. The sparks view is that the reading is higher than the so called 0.35 but is still far lower than what I would get on a TT system. So regardless of if some person or the supplier has connected up the earth to pme, is this ok or should it be disconnected and a TT installed. I just want to know what is best as oppose to just contact the supplier especially when there are no tags on it. Just glad the meter one is on.
What I have been told and can see on the cert is the Zs is very low on my circuits, ie ring upstairs 0.56 lights 0.51 and that is repeated all over the other circuits. The Z1+Z2 continuity/resistance are all within the limits and were tested and not calculated.
The RCD test times are all very low at 1x ranges from 26ms to 64ms, and at 5x 1ms to 27ms. However I'm not sure if these are put in on the cert the right way around because the tester was saying he could not get the 30ma 40ms some made it and some did not the range was from 26ms to 60ms. Also they were tested live with nothing disconnected from sockets. Surely that would also skew results due to things like amps and items with capacitors in still holding a charge? I remember him saying the 1x were great but the 5x are going over.
What I'm getting at is, if the pme was just put in at anytime and the Ze is a tad too high then would this effect the RCD trip times at 5x current. Should an earth rod be added ie to the MET as a precaution. Or the PME removed and a TT system used. Plus is the cert a fail if your RCD times are over 40ms. I just want to know the score from someone without a vested interest in my job ie spark or supplier - just some knowledge to match what I'll be told next week.
As I said I've had another registered spark look at it and he said its all fine, its better than a TT. The cert seems ok and that I would not get rcd tripping as fast at 5x on a TT anyway. However he spotted 3 Zs that were filled in wrong ie they were 80 odd, when everything else was 0.3 on average. So getting that retested, as Z1+Z2 were 0.6 and the zs wrote in as 80.
I guess the bottom line is, the wiring all 'looks' great, and it has been done with all great gear. Its all terminated well, the board is fine and all the bonding is fine. But this is niggling me because I wanted better results and I'm don't have confidence in what I'm being told as I think the Ze should be lower, I think the RCD trip times for 5x should be lower, I keep getting sparks to look and none of them discusses or think about the issues you guys discus here. I got my certs yes, but I really do not care about them - I rather have no cert and everything is safe as possible than a piece of paper saying its ok I know he's dead but everything on paper looks ok.
I don't know if I am over reacting after all they are the professionals, and I've had a second and third opinion. But the issues are bothering me mainly because of the info I've read and in OSG, perhaps for the age of the building and the wiring entering the property its the best it can be - I don't know, any advice would be greatly appreciated that is more than contacted supplier and get another spark in again. Bottom line the job looks the part, but is it the best it can be or are these serious issues? Any help or views would be great guys ;-)
Basically I bought an old property and it was renovated. The property is 1940's It had lead wiring left over, tin wiring left over, some red n black left over and looks like it was re-wired around about the time the colours changed from what the sparks told me.
Everything has been rewired again by 2 sparks. The CU was a 10 way split load board and has been changed to a 17th board, 12 way 2 rcd (30ma) all breakers type b.
The meter has a PME (series 7) was in when I bought it, no prior certs - overhead cables. Meter is internal ie not in meter box outside.
The install and cert were completed by a qualified spark, he is returning at some point to upgrade one circuit which is about 7yr old, this was not accessible at the time. I have read the 17th and osg and in all honesty it seems he's done everything mint and even above ie 16mm earth bonds to gas n water, and all pipes cross bonded. LV in bathroom, board is balance well and well though out. The only junction boxes are on lights these are MF. Oven and Hob on separate circuits. All cables in oval and basket trays in ceiling. All terminations in MK boxes. To my layman eyes the design and work looks mint. Also another lad I know is a spark and he works away, he called over at the end of the first fix and second and said fair play the work is great. So I was happy.
However when it came to testing and the cert is where I've lost confidence. Here is my problems.
First of all I'm not 100% sure of the PME. It has a PME sticker from supplier and a section for the earth cutout by fuse), the tags are missing from the fuse section and tails. I spoke to a western power guy when I was out and about, just picking brains and he said - mate that's the norm as any sparky working on a job will often cut the tag and take the fuse with them so its not just isolated but some clown doesn't come and hit the power back on for their trade to see. If he had his way he'd leave that tag off he said. Which was what the sparks said to me as well, and the lad I know who works away. Makes sense.
However when I seen on the cert that the Ze is 0.45 then I thought well it should be lower for pme, even though I read here there is no legal limit. So part of me is thinking when the place had the split load board they, just clipped the tags and installed the pme because both the tag on the fuse and on the tails section is missing, but the meter (dial) one is still there.
From what I gather the street looks like most are on TT or worse they've just ripped the rod out and thrown down a patio or drive! Going to try and nose in some houses meet the neighbours and see if they are connected to PME. I can't confirm yet but will get nosey
So my first question is this, is this safe. The sparks view is that the reading is higher than the so called 0.35 but is still far lower than what I would get on a TT system. So regardless of if some person or the supplier has connected up the earth to pme, is this ok or should it be disconnected and a TT installed. I just want to know what is best as oppose to just contact the supplier especially when there are no tags on it. Just glad the meter one is on.
What I have been told and can see on the cert is the Zs is very low on my circuits, ie ring upstairs 0.56 lights 0.51 and that is repeated all over the other circuits. The Z1+Z2 continuity/resistance are all within the limits and were tested and not calculated.
The RCD test times are all very low at 1x ranges from 26ms to 64ms, and at 5x 1ms to 27ms. However I'm not sure if these are put in on the cert the right way around because the tester was saying he could not get the 30ma 40ms some made it and some did not the range was from 26ms to 60ms. Also they were tested live with nothing disconnected from sockets. Surely that would also skew results due to things like amps and items with capacitors in still holding a charge? I remember him saying the 1x were great but the 5x are going over.
What I'm getting at is, if the pme was just put in at anytime and the Ze is a tad too high then would this effect the RCD trip times at 5x current. Should an earth rod be added ie to the MET as a precaution. Or the PME removed and a TT system used. Plus is the cert a fail if your RCD times are over 40ms. I just want to know the score from someone without a vested interest in my job ie spark or supplier - just some knowledge to match what I'll be told next week.
As I said I've had another registered spark look at it and he said its all fine, its better than a TT. The cert seems ok and that I would not get rcd tripping as fast at 5x on a TT anyway. However he spotted 3 Zs that were filled in wrong ie they were 80 odd, when everything else was 0.3 on average. So getting that retested, as Z1+Z2 were 0.6 and the zs wrote in as 80.
I guess the bottom line is, the wiring all 'looks' great, and it has been done with all great gear. Its all terminated well, the board is fine and all the bonding is fine. But this is niggling me because I wanted better results and I'm don't have confidence in what I'm being told as I think the Ze should be lower, I think the RCD trip times for 5x should be lower, I keep getting sparks to look and none of them discusses or think about the issues you guys discus here. I got my certs yes, but I really do not care about them - I rather have no cert and everything is safe as possible than a piece of paper saying its ok I know he's dead but everything on paper looks ok.
I don't know if I am over reacting after all they are the professionals, and I've had a second and third opinion. But the issues are bothering me mainly because of the info I've read and in OSG, perhaps for the age of the building and the wiring entering the property its the best it can be - I don't know, any advice would be greatly appreciated that is more than contacted supplier and get another spark in again. Bottom line the job looks the part, but is it the best it can be or are these serious issues? Any help or views would be great guys ;-)
