sockets wired in 1.0mm 3 core flex

[Guest55]

I see the OP'S not been back after several pages of postings.

Thats because he's realised that him and the customer are up to their necks in it.
And after reading his other post on rewiring a house using imperial conduit and skirting sockets , he's clearly not learnt anything since.
Its this sort of crap that hacks me off , domestic installs are without doubt the simpliest form of electrical work there is and yet it gets buggered up daily.

 

[Geordie Spark]

It is really scary that these people are allowed to buy tools!

These people ARE tools !!!

 

[Amp David]

Thats because he's realised that him and the customer are up to their necks in it.
And after reading his other post on rewiring a house using imperial conduit and skirting sockets , he's clearly not learnt anything since.
Its this sort of crap that hacks me off , domestic installs are without doubt the simpliest form of electrical work there is and yet it gets buggered up daily.

Because its done cheap as chips.

 

[electrician4u]

When I did the PIR of course I agreed the extent to what I would check.The customer said the kitchen had just been done so no need to check.As the supply to the kitchen was fed from 2x 2.5 cables and joined behind the washing machine somewhere I had no immediate need for concern.If anyone here says they check every cable, socket, light fitting, CU, light switch etc. they must have very understanding customers to pay for all that time.I've done everything by the book. My customer wants to spend as little as possible (what's new?)...Her husband (I've just found out) wired the kitchen sockets and I've now told her the whole lot's gotta come out. Thanks to those with constructive suggestions.

 

[ruston]

To be honest alarm bells should have rung when a new installation has no certification in this day and age, and they opted for another electrician. But I suppose we can all get sucked in.

 

[snowhead]

As the kitchen is primarily fed with 2 x 2.5mm, there is no option to derate the mcb, as in the future someone else may see the 2.5's and just stick a 32a back in.

 

[electrician4u]

you cannot be serious??there are guys on here criticising my credentials when there's this comment that on a ring any load placed 1/4 way round a ring circuit would load the cable at a ratio of 3 to 1....scary!!I guess maths is not everyone's strong point

 

[Guest55]

............The customer said the kitchen had just been done so no need to check.

...........................

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I guess maths is not everyone's strong point

Quite so.

 

[electrician4u]

Sorry fella but you ARE trying to milk them as this problem should have been spotted and mentioned to them before you started.
people on here are trying to advise your question and it would seem you know better than them as you don't want to accept the replies.
Perhaps they should rewrite the regs for each job you want to do to suit you.

from what I've gathered so far, it's not against the regs which is what I wanted to know.Why should it have been spotted before I started? does your customers pay you to inspect every item before you do a job? thought not

 

[tony mc]

If you carried out a PIR and on the EICR you have agreed that the kitchen final ring was not to be included and is documented as a limitation I can't see any problem.

However on connecting the new consumer unit you have to test all circuits before connecting to the new CU and the Kitchen ring in 1mm flex can not be reconnected!

I don't beleive anyone is saying you should check every socket light fitting Why would you check anything in the Kitchen if its a Limitation.

IMO it was your first post about leaving the 1mm flex and docmenting the EIR as a departure which has caused the concern!

 

[electrician4u]

Ohms law.


But it's not.

Think you need math evening classes if you disagree with my statement

 

[ruston]

Two regs show in the replies that it is against the regs to use 1mm on sockets.

 

[Geordie Spark]

If you carried out a PIR and on the EICR you have agreed that the kitchen final ring was not to be included and is documented as a limitation I can't see any problem.

However on connecting the new consumer unit you have to test all circuits before connecting to the new CU and the Kitchen ring in 1mm flex can not be reconnected!

I don't beleive anyone is saying you should check every socket light fitting Why would you check anything in the Kitchen if its a Limitation.

IMO it was your first post about leaving the 1mm flex and docmenting the EIR as a departure which has caused the concern!

Exactly !!!!

 

[Guest55]

If you carried out a PIR and on the EICR you have agreed that the kitchen final ring was not to be included and is documented as a limitation I can't see any problem.

Back in the real world , any customer who asks you to completely ignore checking the kitchen wiring that has no certs during a PIR is clearly hiding a bodge.
That sort of limitation cuts no ice whatsoever IMO.

 

[Guest55]

This thread is disending into farce , big time.

 

[electrician4u]

It could always be that this guy is a DIY'er, has wired his kitchen in what he had in the shed, and has since realised (or been told) that he's made a mistake.
He now wants solutions to the problem which won't involve him removing the tiles, and all he has been told on here is that it needs redoing!
Remember guys, we don't know anything about anyone who posts on here. It's only after a while that we begin to get a picture of who is actually qualified.

Have you EVER given a useful piece of advice to anyone? or do you get your jollies by trying to appear superior to everyone else? do us all a favour and get a life. I've been an electrician most my life and know what a ring should be wired in. I was simply wondering about any options in regards to the flex.noone has yet proved that it's against the regs but I know it'll have to go

 

[Geordie Spark]

This thread is disending into farce , big time.

It's not descending into farce .. it has already descended !!!! :mad2:

I remember when I first joined this forum not that long ago, being impressed with the very informative high-quality posts. I learned a lot & at the same time was entertained. Now we have the likes of this thread on an almost daily basis which is fine for the "shock horror" element and OMG moments, but I have to ask where have all the quality posters that we used to have gone ??

 

[Amp David]

When I did the PIR of course I agreed the extent to what I would check.The customer said the kitchen had just been done so no need to check.As the supply to the kitchen was fed from 2x 2.5 cables and joined behind the washing machine somewhere I had no immediate need for concern.If anyone here says they check every cable, socket, light fitting, CU, light switch etc. they must have very understanding customers to pay for all that time.I've done everything by the book. My customer wants to spend as little as possible (what's new?)...Her husband (I've just found out) wired the kitchen sockets and I've now told her the whole lot's gotta come out. Thanks to those with constructive suggestions.

If doing the PIR, then i would of had at least 2 sockets of the wall in the kitchen, I always do as a minimum.
Either way, surely if the ring is wired in 1mm flex, then your ring tests would of seemed a little high

 

[valleybilly]

Split the cable onto 2x 16a radials only , Max length 16 meters each but only ref method C is allowable

If your ELI is below 2.3 your good to go

 

[Guest55]

Have you EVER given a useful piece of advice to anyone?
Yes he has , numerous times

or do you get your jollies by trying to appear superior to everyone else?
Nope , the job of forum gob on a stick belongs to me.

do us all a favour and get a life. I've been an electrician most my life and know what a ring should be wired in.
Then why are you asking ?
I was simply wondering about any options in regards to the flex.
Your options all involve a lump hammer and chisel.
noone has yet proved that it's against the regs but I know it'll have to go
Yet instead you question the maths of others , like thats going to help.

...........................

 

[Amp David]

Have you EVER given a useful piece of advice to anyone? or do you get your jollies by trying to appear superior to everyone else? do us all a favour and get a life. I've been an electrician most my life and know what a ring should be wired in. I was simply wondering about any options in regards to the flex.noone has yet proved that it's against the regs but I know it'll have to go

Come on boss, if you've been sparkying for most of your life, then how can you even think there is any option other than to rewire, or stick in a OCPD that will protect the flex.

All you have to do is look at the CCC of cables to see its against regs if being connected back up as a standard RFC.

If i were in this situation and the customer, as they are always doing, tells me its right, then i'd connect the ring to a 6 amp MCB, test it and leave a comment.

They'll be back on the blower the morning after once the toaster, ketlle etc have been on, complaining. What can they do, you've been paid and its all down on the cert, Happy Days.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

I think the best option is as youve stated, rip it out. Its never going to stay on long enough (the MCB, be it 6/10/16) to be of use, assuming its a normal kitchen with avkettle, toaster, tv, plug in cooker, microwave, diswasher, washer, tumble dryer and all the usual chargers and underlighters spurred off it!

 

[Geoffsd]

Waste of time, I know but...

I've been an electrician most my life

Then why do you need to ask such simple questions and then disagree with the replies.

.noone has yet proved that it's against the regs but I know it'll have to go

Yes they have.

Myself - 433.1.103

Ruston - Table 52-3

Carry on ignoring.

Think you need math evening classes if you disagree with my statement

Disagreeing with a wrong statement does not mean maths lessons are needed.

It is obvious that you do not know what to work out; let alone know how to do it.

 

[Geoffsd]

Split the cable onto 2x 16a radials only , Max length 16 meters each but only ref method C is allowable

The flex is only rated at 10A.

 

[electrician4u]

Thats because he's realised that him and the customer are up to their necks in it.
And after reading his other post on rewiring a house using imperial conduit and skirting sockets , he's clearly not learnt anything since.
Its this sort of crap that hacks me off , domestic installs are without doubt the simpliest form of electrical work there is and yet it gets buggered up daily.

what hacks u off, exactly?what hacks me off is people on forums who offer no constructive advice and would rather be pompous know-all tw*ts moaning about how everyone else is not up to your standard

 

[Des 56]

I think the best option is as youve stated, rip it out. Its never going to stay on long enough (the MCB, be it 6/10/16) to be of use, assuming its a normal kitchen with avkettle, toaster, tv, plug in cooker, microwave, diswasher, washer, tumble dryer and all the usual chargers and underlighters spurred off it!

If that is so,then there was a change of mind somewhere along the way :90:

I did suggest buying a scutch chisel in the opening posts
That was dismissed with the comment "Are there any serious suggestions"

M'lord I rest my case

 

[Guest55]

what hacks u off, exactly?what hacks me off is people on forums who offer no constructive advice and would rather be pompous know-all tw*ts moaning about how everyone else is not up to your standard

nice come back , hope the job goes well.

 

[D Skelton]

Is the only option to get out the hammer and chisel???

Would it not be possible for the OP to carry out his rewire as planned leaving the kitchen, then when it comes to fitting the new CU, just split the tails leaving the old CU in with only the kitchen circuit left connected and put the new CU in next to the old to cover all the new circuits? This means he can sign all his work off without a problem (making clear note of this on the cert). Existing shoddy work is down to the customer surely?

I'm not trying to take sides or defend what seems like a very poorly carried out initial EICR, I just fancied injecting some more constructive debate into this thread.

Any takers?

 

[Geordie Spark]

Can someone PLEASE put this miserable thread out of its misery !!! :behead:

 

[electrician4u]

It's not descending into farce .. it has already descended !!!! :mad2:

I remember when I first joined this forum not that long ago, being impressed with the very informative high-quality posts. I learned a lot & at the same time was entertained. Now we have the likes of this thread on an almost daily basis which is fine for the "shock horror" element and OMG moments, but I have to ask where have all the quality posters that we used to have gone ??

probably left due to the bitchy comments. Always thought sparks were a friendly bunch-now not so sure

 

[Geordie Spark]

probably left due to the bitchy comments. Always thought sparks were a friendly bunch-now not so sure

We are a friendly bunch ..... when we are not having our intelligence insulted !!!

 

[Amp David]

To the OP, is this yourself Untitled Page , or are we all being mean!

 

[alarm man]

probably left due to the bitchy comments. Always thought sparks were a friendly bunch-now not so sure

to be fair e4u.some of your questions do ask the question if your a spark,if that is your webby the 30 years is either a boast or a lie,far better to say your domestic knowledge is limited than try and outwit some very good sparks on here,who are willing to help but dont like the **** taken hence the replies..

 

[electrician4u]

Waste of time, I know but...



Then why do you need to ask such simple questions and then disagree with the replies.



Yes they have.

Myself - 433.1.103

Ruston - Table 52-3

Carry on ignoring.




Disagreeing with a wrong statement does not mean maths lessons are needed.

It is obvious that you do not know what to work out; let alone know how to do it.

oh, table 52.3 which states minimum sheathed cable for power circuit is 1.0mm?do you mean that one?as for the 433.1.1 I can't see anything relevant other than the protective device should be appropriate for the cable size-

 

[Amp David]

Is that your website, please tell, or have my posts been blocked???

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Des 56 - I may have misread something ...

 

[SPARTYKUS]

oh, table 52.3 which states minimum sheathed cable for power circuit is 1.0mm?do you mean that one?as for the 433.1.1 I can't see anything relevant other than the protective device should be appropriate for the cable size-

e4u, are you looking in a red or green book? He's posted 433.1.103

 

[AP Electrical]

Rapidly becoming a witch hunt, - maybe time to move on guys.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There are four options:
1) Rip out and replace.
2) De-rate the CPD.
3) Disconnect and leave alone.
4) Leave as is and do nothing.
You've already stated that ripping out and replacing is not an option.
It's been pointed out to you what the maximum rating of CPD should be if you de-rated, but you appear to be having trouble understanding the reasons.
That leaves you with disconnection or leaving as is.

Just to set your mind at rest, as has already been pointed out by others, there is nothing in the Regulations prohibiting the use of flex for fixed wiring.
The only reason (from the information you have provided) that the situation doesn't comply is that the CPD is rated too high for the conductors used.