Some help with coding please for an EICR?

[HappyHippyDad]

Evening..

I have just carried out an EICR and I am a little unsure on which code to issue for the following 4 things:

1. The cover has been cut on the fuse box to make way for the plug in mcb's (see picture). I see this all the time. A consumer unit is perhaps the single most important electrical item in the house, surely it should not be tampered with by cutting the cover off? C2?

2. There are 2 x 6mm bonding cable leaving the board. The gas is bonded. The water has no visible bonding clamp. It tests 117ohms to earth where it enters the house, shortly after in the same room there is a plastic joint. After this plastic joint it, again in the same room, it is metal and tests as 0.009Mohms. Both are extraneous. C2?

3. A knockout has been taken out of the bottom of the fuse box, it has one cable going into it. The hole is large enough for a child to fit their small finger into. The board is under the stairs and easily reachable. C2?

4. There are 2 switched FCU's in the bathroom outside of the zones. It's instilled into you never to fit a plate switch in a bathroom but the OSG actually states a plate switch is ok outside of the zones. No code?

Cheers guys.

Ps.. I'll try and figure out how to put a picture on in a bit. It used to be so easy!

 

[andyb]

I agree with Vortigern. In the 80s we used to fit wylex boards, then when the pop out MCBs were introduced they put the indent in the cover for this reason. The middle came out with a tap from a pair of pliers then you'd clean the edges with the pliers. If you did not knock out the middle you could not fit the cover.
The reason that you can see what looks to be a live part is because someone has fitted an incorrect base.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Even with the cover totally absent, the front of the CU will comply with IP ratings for live parts in enclosures and should not be worthy of a code surely ?

No it wont. without the cover, intact or with the KO removed , it is easily possible to access the live prongs of a plug in fuse or MCB by simply pulling it forward without the use of a tool, a child could do it. These boards without the cover are either a code 1 or code 2 depending on accessibility.

 

[Ian1981]

Ip2x(c)minimum for an enclosure/consumer unit other than the top surface

 

[andyb]

No it wont. without the cover, intact or with the KO removed , it is easily possible to access the live prongs of a plug in fuse or MCB by simply pulling it forward without the use of a tool, a child could do it. These boards without the cover are either a code 1 or code 2 depending on accessibility.

From memory I'm fairly sure that with the modified cover on you can't pull the MCBs out or the fuse holders. But as Ian says IP2X is the reg.

Talking about accessible live parts, I'm amazed that basic lampholders are still allowed on wall lights and table lamps.

 

[Davisonp]

What about no RCD protection on shower/ bathroom electrics and can any sockets be used outside?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

From memory I'm fairly sure that with the modified cover on you can't pull the MCBs out or the fuse holders. But as Ian says IP2X is the reg.

Talking about accessible live parts, I'm amazed that basic lampholders are still allowed on wall lights and table lamps.

You are correct, with the KO out the cover will still prevent access to live parts. However Andy78 stated that even with the cover 'totally absent' the CU will comply with IP ratings and requirements over access to live parts. That is clearly wrong, with the cover missing (intact or modified) these boards allow simple access to live parts and are an immediate danger.

 

[Andy78]

You are correct, with the KO out the cover will still prevent access to live parts. However Andy78 stated that even with the cover 'totally absent' the CU will comply with IP ratings and requirements over access to live parts. That is clearly wrong, with the cover missing (intact or modified) these boards allow simple access to live parts and are an immediate danger.

As quoted by others, the requirement on the front of an enclosure to shield from live parts is IP2X. This rating is not compromised even with the cover removed and all devices removed as long as all bases are intact and in place.
I'm not sure how you can say I was clearly wrong in asserting this. There are no gaps bigger than 12.5mm that allow access to live parts.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

On both the fuses and MCB's it is while withdrawing a device that the two brass prongs on the device are exposed to touch and live if the main switch is on, try it if you don't believe me. It's possible to tilt a fuse carrier leaving the bottom prong connected to the busbar and exposing even more of the top prong. Without the cover in place this can be done without the use of a tool so therefore the enclosure does not meet the requirements. The same applies to the older covers which had a knurled head screw to retain it instead of a screw requiring the use of a tool.
Once the devices are removed you are correct in saying it meets the requirements.

 

[Andy78]

On both the fuses and MCB's it is while withdrawing a device that the two brass prongs on the device are exposed to touch and live if the main switch is on, try it if you don't believe me. It's possible to tilt a fuse carrier leaving the bottom prong connected to the busbar and exposing even more of the top prong. Without the cover in place this can be done without the use of a tool so therefore the enclosure does not meet the requirements. The same applies to the older covers which had a knurled head screw to retain it instead of a screw requiring the use of a tool.
Once the devices are removed you are correct in saying it meets the requirements.

Ah right, I'm with you now. Yes I would agree that it is possible to be in danger of contact whilst handling a device with the main switch closed. Never thought of it that way round to be honest. Sometimes difficult to think of the possible actions of the end user when it is things you would not do yourself.

 

[Des 56]

In the distant past something changed,previously to these boards,a fuse would not be accessible until the switch was turned off,they had interlocks,switch off then remove fuse
Along came the traditional Wylex and the fuses could be removed only if the cover was removed
It seems it was a backward step but the Iee must have decided it was fine to do so
The cover was a barrier to access of the fuses rather than just a protection against molten metal

 

[Deleted member 9648]

That's why a missing cover is either a code 1 or 2 for me. That said you can still remove the cover with a tool, not switch off and withdraw the fuses, but at least you'd hope a screwed cover in place will prevent children or elderly or 'those not competent' from electric shock.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

In the distant past something changed,previously to these boards,a fuse would not be accessible until the switch was turned off,they had interlocks,switch off then remove fuse
Along came the traditional Wylex and the fuses could be removed only if the cover was removed
It seems it was a backward step but the Iee must have decided it was fine to do so
The cover was a barrier to access of the fuses rather than just a protection against molten metal

You had me captivated then, it was like the beginning to a classic sci-fi film

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Does anyone have any ideas about point number 2?
The best practice guides make it very clear that no main bonding is a C2 which makes sense to me as the incoming metal work is extraneous and requires bonding to limit touch voltage in the case of a fault.

I also think I should bond the copper pipes after the plastic joint in the same room as they are extraneous? Its a wet room (toilet and sink).

 

[Richard Burns]

Tel has covered it all really, but if the incoming water pipe is metal and tests at 117Ω to earth then it is extraneous and is not bonded and so it requires bonding, this absence will attract a C2 code as it is dangerous in case of a fault.
The copper pipes after the plastic joint should not be able to introduce an earth potential into the installation unless they are firmly fixed against another conductive surface which is connected to true earth (in which case that part also should have been bonded) however they may be casually connected to other earthed parts in the installation, though a reading of 9000Ω is very high for any sort of electrical contact to the earthing system, perhaps they go underground or are buried in the walls below the DPC at some point?
Generally they should not require bonding in most cases but your test results indicate that it should be bonded so based on this it would also attract a C2 and a link over the plastic join may be required to maintain the bonding, or more precisely another bonding cable should be run to this pipe work, whether looped from the first bonding point or from the MET.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Thanks for the through explanation Richard... and thanks to all the others who replied as well. I've learnt quite a bit about the old covers for the 3036 boards.

 

[ipf]

The 3036 replacement circuit mcb 3871, or later 60898, is designed, via shape, so that it can not be removed when the original fuse cover is re fitted...after being cut out appropriately, of course. They also have their own base which isn't as deep as the 3036 original. That mem mcb can obviously be removed with the fuse cover in place.
Wylex did the cartridge fuse variety but that can be removed in such a situation.
As regards coding....it's make your mind up time.

ps. On board changes, if any of those mcb's are being removed, keep them, could be useful.