The Future of MCS...

[whinmoor]

Nice to see people with plenty of hands-on experience running the show....not...

http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/images/MCS_CF_Trustees_Biographies.pdf

 

[solarsavings]

Not the sort to make large expense claims either by the look of their history.

 

[Worcester]

So definitely about managing the money and processes so they can be 'seen' to operate as a charity, and not about the technology or market sector (industry).. Also though not stated, you can guarantee a certain level of personal contact/influence with politicians.

Does not bode well for the development of the industry. More regulation and rules to come.

This should be simplified not complicated, don;t see that happening tho with this move

HOWEVER, if they do achieve the 'regulatory' status as per gassafe for renewables, it MIGHT close out some of the cowboys..

 

[Gavin A]

wow, not a single actual representative from the renewables industry, who actually fund the entire thing.

 

[TedM]

It looks like the charity will simply have an over-sight task with MCS operation left in the hands of the MCS Service Company with the latter being further extracted from under Gemserv.

Trustee job spec: The Microgeneration Certification Scheme Charitable Foundation (MCS CF): Trustees - NEDworks

Last October's Tripartite agreement (DECC, Gemserv, MCSSCo): http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/images/MCS_Agreement_-_Signed_2010.10.01.PDF

 

[Gavin A]

can't help thinking that this should have been set up as more of a union / members organisation where we actually get to vote for our representatives.

but now, it's just another quango.

 

[Worcester]

can't help thinking that this should have been set up as more of a union / members organisation where we actually get to vote for our representatives.

but now, it's just another quango.

There is still that opportunity as the Legislation doesn't give MCS exclusivity - YET ... there can be another body set up

Perhaps the 3,556 MCS certified companies should each donate £100 to set it up

How many do you think would go along with it ...

They make shed loads more money out of the certificate registration fees than they do the membership..

 

[The Solar King]

There was nothing to stop anyone applying to be a trustee. Thought about it myself but decide I couldn't commit the time. If you didn't apply quit moaning about who was appointed. There are certain qualities, attributes and experience that are required for the role of trustee. What makes you think those appointed will be unable to successfully fulfil the required role?

 

[The Solar King]

Equally, there was adequate opportunity to become involved in discussion about the future framework of MCS. All you had to do was become involved. Please do not complain about those who bothered and committed their time if you didn't. You can't have it both ways. What evidence is there that a different structure would be more successful in delivering he required outcomes?

 

[Worcester]

Equally, there was adequate opportunity to become involved in discussion about the future framework of MCS. All you had to do was become involved. Please do not complain about those who bothered and committed their time if you didn't. You can't have it both ways. What evidence is there that a different structure would be more successful in delivering he required outcomes?

Depends upon how you define the outcomes, the gov'ts requirements are simple, however atm with three bodies involved - the CPS / Certification Bodies, MCS and RECC, yet NONE of them actually champion the consumer when it goes wrong... and name any publicity about anyone being struck off, or the phoenix companies, fold one, start another...

We are still seeing a debacle of over selling, I have one quote on my desk from a company showing me £70,000 in fuel savings over the next 20 years if I swap from Oil to a pellet boiler - My current oil bill is less than £1500 per year... and yet some people will be suckered in... I don't see that these changes will address the fundamental failings of the MCS scheme.

Strip it down, simplify it, use pre-published standards by other technical authorities, charge an appropriate fee for a certificate - it costs less than £3 to send in my building regs notices, and for other work, that includes insurance on my warranty..

 

[solarsavings]

There was nothing to stop anyone applying to be a trustee. Thought about it myself but decide I couldn't commit the time. If you didn't apply quit moaning about who was appointed. There are certain qualities, attributes and experience that are required for the role of trustee. What makes you think those appointed will be unable to successfully fulfil the required role?

We are well aware of your very high opinion of.................................yourself and your dickie bow wearing pals.

 

[Gavin A]

There was nothing to stop anyone applying to be a trustee. Thought about it myself but decide I couldn't commit the time. If you didn't apply quit moaning about who was appointed. There are certain qualities, attributes and experience that are required for the role of trustee. What makes you think those appointed will be unable to successfully fulfil the required role?

Here's the requirements from the advert

About the applicantWe are looking for individuals to steer and guide the charity through its initial establishment and implementation following successful registration. We are therefore looking specifically for individuals with skills and expertise in the following areas:

• Strategy establishment and organisational development
• Charity compliance and efficient operations
• Operating at senior committee or board level
• Grant giving
• Consumer and environmental protection

nothing in there at all about wanting anyone on the boards who knows anything even vaguely about renewable energy, so yes we could have applied, but as we'd mostly not have met that spec we'd not have got the role.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have had people on the board to cover the roles listed, but they definitely should also have people on the board to cover the roles relating to the actual remit of the charity, and the reason they don't is because they set it up that way, not because none of us applied.

 

[t4sltd]

This ties in with my experience; when I spoke to the IET (when they were drafting the standard) they were asking about MCS and why it should continue to exist beyond FIT. Many years ago Gryff Thomas talked me into joining MCS as it would be necessary as a CPS.

 

[Worcester]

Ofgem are considering an alternative to MCS for the Domestic RHI

In my mind, the existing CPS providers should be capable of certifying, the challenge is to what standards, which is probably really what MCS aims to deliver.

See here and comment yourselves https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publicatio...ence-domestic-renewable-heat-incentive-scheme

 

[Worcester]

OK, So how many of us saw this and realised it's implications:

MCS Consultations: Certification Body Requirements Document

Microgeneration Certification Scheme - MCS Consultations: Certification Body Requirements Document

Despite their archivng it's difficult to find, also responses had to be in by 4th December.

So what?
Here's the crunch - MCS are proposing to massively up the number of inspection so that you could easily end up with multiple inspections per year - some of the larger installers would end up having one a fortnight!!!

The consultation included two direct questions applicable to microgeneration installers. The first concerns a new method of calculating the number of site inspections an installation business would be required to undergo (Q1). The second relates to a proposed cap on the number of site visits that would be required for larger organisations (Q4).

The new calculation method MCS are proposing could see surveillance visits rise from one a year, up to 20 a year, depending on the number of installations you carry out.

The consultation does not take into consideration the additional time and costs that would be incurred by the installers when determining the impact of the changes – which may be significant.

Nicely hidden whilst we're all busy, the document doesn't even appear on their 'archived consultations page, I can't find any links to it at all, so here's one:
http://www.microgenerationcertifica...ultation_and_Impact_Assessment_v1_0_FINAL.pdf
and the responce document (too late )
http://aemapi.spsend.com/Clicks?Lin...5e&Blast=880d1ebf-3a64-4192-b828-6a042aa38b11

If you're into renewable heat also check this out urgently : https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/defa...ce_consultation_stage_2_v1_0_dec_2015_web.pdf
( Stage 2 consultation on MCS equivalence for the Domestic Renewable Heat Incentive Scheme )

 

[Worcester]

On top of all that, MCS have just gone out to tender for a compliance audit inspection service - they're proposing to spot check a significant number of installations themselves, key note - the owner of the system has to give approval for the inspection and they can decline.

Net effect, those owners not happy will agree (rightly so), however the inspection sample with therfore be heavily skewed to those with non compliances / poor workmanship, which will them trigger even more inspections based on the new proposals above... So penalising the good guys how are just trying to do their best.

 

[Gavin A]

I didn't see that, will check my emails to see if I got sent anything about it.

Not opposed to the principle of the visits, but am opposed to the costs being born by the companies. At over 100 installs those companies will have put in £3500 or so to MCS in fees, which MCS is making a big profit on, so MCS should front the costs from the existing fees.

 

[SolarCity]

If the inspectors want to come and actually scrutinise my installs then I'd be happy with 6 inspections a year. If I'm going to have the headache/charade of sorting my QMS document out every time then I'm going to be very annoyed indeed.

The industry could be improved many times over with a little bit of common sense. They should speak to a cross section of customers/visit a cross section of installs off their own back (none of this installer choosing nonsense) and poor installs/customer service should be struck off the list.

Our company has been going a long time now while many companies with impeccable QMSs have folded. Really, why is it anyone else's business how I run mine?

 

[SolarCity]

"Average cost per kW 2014 – seehttps://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/solar-pv-cost-data £2,101.00"

£2,100?!

 

[The Solar King]

"Average cost per kW 2014 – seehttps://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/solar-pv-cost-data £2,101.00"

£2,100?![/QUOTE)

I wish! We are looking at a max price of £5000.00 for a 4kW system to make it work for the customer. Smaller systems will be more per kW as only equipment costs reduce. This figure may be true in SE England or true on a historic basis. Just as well it formed the basis of DECCs calculations.