torque requirements of MCB terminals

[Andy78]

Regulation

So reading the manufacturers data/instruction they'll tell you to torque set it to X amount.

Except where manufacturers instructions are not relevant or improper to the correct and safe installation of equipment, which I have come across many times. And I believe the wording of this reg has changed in the BYB anyway.

 

[Brad1]

I suggest you buy well known brands which are CE marked and checked and not skimp out on poor products that'll have poor connection/terminations.

 

[spud1]

Except where manufacturers instructions are not relevant or improper to the correct and safe installation of equipment, which I have come across many times. And I believe the wording of this reg has changed in the BYB anyway.

As in Competent person becomes skilled person. What will this person be in the 18th edition? A master craftsman, perhaps godlike in the 19th?

 

[Geordie Spark]

She already think she knows everything about being a sparky! I've yet to break it to her that RCD doesn't really stand for REALLY CLEVER DEVICE though!

As long as she's happy thinking that I wouldn't bother confusing her with what it means.

 

[Andy78]

I suggest you buy well known brands which are CE marked and checked and not skimp out on poor products that'll have poor connection/terminations.

I always do my good fellow, but I don't always supply all the equipment I install. I don't always install equipment I have not provided either.

 

[davesparks]

Regulation

So reading the manufacturers data/instruction they'll tell you to torque set it to X amount.

Do they? the MIs for the KMF switch sitting on my desk at the moment only have a recommended torque for the terminals. A lot of MIs will state a recommended torque and a maximum torque but will very rarely specify a torque that a terminal which connects directly to a cable must be tightened to. This is because the correct torque will be different depending on the size and type of conductor being terminated.

 

[Brad1]

So going back to the regulation. They( the manufacturer) has stated in their instructions/data a recommended Torque which as yourself has just confirmed and so not following that recommendation which they have stated is not following the instructions which is written in black and white on the data sheet is technically breaking a "regulation." Like the whole IEE wiring regulations, it's not law to follow them but against the law if you don't. Some questions are better off not asked/answered, but that's what they'll say if (Unfortunately and hope it never does) it went to court. These days it's all about covering your backside in our world and pass the blame back to the manufacturer.

 

[specs]

I keep coming across CU's where the standard is well below par, you need muscles like 'Garth' to get the screws in the neutral and earth bars to tighten. The builder keeps coming back with units from the 'sheds' which I now point blank refuse to fit. yes they are cheaper, but they are also crap and in my opinion dangerous.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I keep coming across CU's where the standard is well below par, you need muscles like 'Garth' to get the screws in the neutral and earth bars to tighten. The builder keeps coming back with units from the 'sheds' which I now point blank refuse to fit. yes they are cheaper, but they are also crap and in my opinion dangerous.

It's not only the thread profiles that are wrong and out of tolerance, the material is crap too and the heads are misshapen so no matter how good your screwdriver is it still doesn't fit the screw head properly!!

Your Torque Screwdriver will NEVER make up for that!!

 

[davesparks]

So going back to the regulation. They( the manufacturer) has stated in their instructions/data a recommended Torque which as yourself has just confirmed and so not following that recommendation which they have stated is not following the instructions which is written in black and white on the data sheet is technically breaking a "regulation." Like the whole IEE wiring regulations, it's not law to follow them but against the law if you don't. Some questions are better off not asked/answered, but that's what they'll say if (Unfortunately and hope it never does) it went to court. These days it's all about covering your backside in our world and pass the blame back to the manufacturer.

Yes a recommended torque, not a specified torque. There is no obligation to follow that recommendation. A tradesman will be able to make his own assessment of how tight a termination needs to be.

It is not against the law of you don't follow the IEE regulations and you cannot be prosecuted directly for failing to comply with them. They are referenced in some legal documents and can be used to support a case against you.

 

[R G]

We can only hope that the poorly installed threaded screws and bars are rectified and better quality parts within the boards to at least attempt to use a torque driver , so it seems they want to make the boards fire proof to mask the quality of them ....LOL,,,,,

 

[jamie-spark]

What ever happened to, you know that it's tight enough. Is this the Electrical Trainee bull****

 

[Guest666]

MCB torque settings are one thing. But the literature that comes with the MCB does not know the cable that you are using. A torque setting for a 10mm cable may well damage a 1.5mm. Use your knowledge and skill to determine if the cable is tight enough and take your torque driver back. Just because you tightened with a torque driver does not mean that all responsibility is given up by you when it comes to the quality of the termination.

 

[enlighting]

I was at a NAPIT seminar this evening, a chap from the IET was also there to enlighten us and this matter was discussed.

It would appear in the eyes of NAPIT and the IET that the regulation stating manufacturers instructions must be followed does in fact require the use of a torque driver on not only your cable terminations but the checking of factory terminations as well. I m pretty sure that not all manufacturers instructions include torque settings, for example the Cheaper brands like CPN and the God awful CHINT boards (I do plan on verifying this).

As is often the case this is a regulation written for an ideal word and IMO leaves the electrician exposed to potential prosecution. But maybe I'm just being synical.

As it happens I do own a torque driver and use it whenever I discover manufacturers indicated settings, for example the Schneider (Merlin Gerin) breakers and boards have the NM requirement printed on them. I feel that if things are moving in the direction of electricians being required to install to precise torque settings all manufacturers should display there torque settings on the breakers themselves not buried in a leaflet or in some cases listed on a website.

 

[shanky887614]

I was at a NAPIT seminar this evening, a chap from the IET was also there to enlighten us and this matter was discussed.

It would appear in the eyes of NAPIT and the IET that the regulation stating manufacturers instructions must be followed does in fact require the use of a torque driver on not only your cable terminations but the checking of factory terminations as well. I m pretty sure that not all manufacturers instructions include torque settings, for example the Cheaper brands like CPN and the God awful CHINT boards (I do plan on verifying this).

As is often the case this is a regulation written for an ideal word and IMO leaves the electrician exposed to potential prosecution. But maybe I'm just being synical.

As it happens I do own a torque driver and use it whenever I discover manufacturers indicated settings, for example the Schneider (Merlin Gerin) breakers and boards have the NM requirement printed on them. I feel that if things are moving in the direction of electricians being required to install to precise torque settings all manufacturers should display there torque settings on the breakers themselves not buried in a leaflet or in some cases listed on a website.

the new regs say to take into account.

i took the recommend nm into acount your honor but the cables were still loose so i tightened them up properly lol

 

[Andy78]

I was at a NAPIT seminar this evening, a chap from the IET was also there to enlighten us and this matter was discussed.

It would appear in the eyes of NAPIT and the IET that the regulation stating manufacturers instructions must be followed does in fact require the use of a torque driver on not only your cable terminations but the checking of factory terminations as well. I m pretty sure that not all manufacturers instructions include torque settings, for example the Cheaper brands like CPN and the God awful CHINT boards (I do plan on verifying this).

As is often the case this is a regulation written for an ideal word and IMO leaves the electrician exposed to potential prosecution. But maybe I'm just being synical.

As it happens I do own a torque driver and use it whenever I discover manufacturers indicated settings, for example the Schneider (Merlin Gerin) breakers and boards have the NM requirement printed on them. I feel that if things are moving in the direction of electricians being required to install to precise torque settings all manufacturers should display there torque settings on the breakers themselves not buried in a leaflet or in some cases listed on a website.

Good job this reg will be no more in a couple of weeks then......

 

[enlighting]

the new regs say to take into account.

i took the recommend nm into acount your honor but the cables were still loose so i tightened them up properly lol

Ha ha! Yes im with you there!

I have not read the reg in Am 3 yet as im still saving my pennnies to pay for yet another set of Regs books ��

 

[shanky887614]

Ha ha! Yes im with you there!

I have not read the reg in Am 3 yet as im still saving my pennnies to pay for yet another set of Regs books ��

im not buying the guidance notes till i either go self employed or the 18th comes out


why should we have to buy upto 8gn books every amendment. thats a lot of money

 

[enlighting]

I assume they were reffering to the ammended regulation

 

[Andy78]

im not buying the guidance notes till i either go self employed or the 18th comes out

I wouldn't either seeing as they can't be bothered to print them correctly.