torque requirements of MCB terminals

[spud1]

Does anyone know the general torque requirements of MCB terminals?
Just bought myself a new torque screwdriver set and ought to know what I should be setting it to!

 

[trev]

Each different brand could have a different torque setting

 

[Andy78]

The requirements, if any, will be included in the literature associated with the equipment.

 

[spud1]

Each different brand could have a different torque setting

That sucks....

 

[trev]

That sucks....

Why? Because you have to read some info?

 

[spud1]

Why? Because you have to read some info?

Yeah, I cant read....

 

[trev]

Get Mrs Spud to read the product info and tell you about it then

 

[spud1]

Good thinkin batman! Cheers for the advice.

 

[Brad1]

Just becareful buying a Torque screwdriver... Not all brands (Such as schneider) cover the full range of torque settings required by manufactures.

 

[spud1]

Just becareful buying a Torque screwdriver... Not all brands (Such as schneider) cover the full range of torque settings required by manufactures.

You have got to be kidding! Its a schneider that I have bought this morning! £75 quid!! I can feel a credit back coming on..

 

[Geordie Spark]

Why? Because you have to read some info?

Because he's about to learn the futility of buying a Torque Screwdriver for domestic MCB's with their pi$$y slack poorly formed terminal screws and badly tapped holes in the busbars.

Until the manufacturers seriously address that little issue you'll never get the terminals to stay tight for any length of time!

If you don't understand what I'm banging on about take a look at your modern terminals and compare them with the old ones that you're all so keen to chuck away. Two properly formed screws per terminal for a start!!

 

[trev]

Good thinkin batman! Cheers for the advice.

It's win/win mate. You don't have to learn to read and she learns about what you do for a living.

 

[spud1]

It's win/win mate. You don't have to learn to read and she learns about what you do for a living.

She already think she knows everything about being a sparky! I've yet to break it to her that RCD doesn't really stand for REALLY CLEVER DEVICE though!

 

[Geordie Spark]

You have got to be kidding! Its a schneider that I have bought this morning! £75 quid!! I can feel a credit back coming on..

Find yourself an old-school engineer to teach you how to use & look after your screwdrivers & give him your £75.

I still have the set I made when I was an apprentice and they're still in good order and YES they DO get used!!

 

[Brad1]

Find yourself an old-school engineer to teach you how to use & look after your screwdrivers & give him your £75.

I still have the set I made when I was an apprentice and they're still in good order and YES they DO get used!!

Difference being Torque screwdrivers/ torque setting screws etc is now regulations.

 

[telectrix]

Difference being Torque screwdrivers/ torque setting screws etc is now regulations.

since when?

 

[spud1]

Difference being Torque screwdrivers/ torque setting screws etc is now regulations.

NICEIC ask to see your torque screwdriver during inspection. I could rub some mud on it and make it looked used. A strong wrist and experience is all you need to do up an MCB, luckily I have both (No jokes about strong wrists please)

 

[Brad1]

since when?

Regulation

Regulation 134.1.1 of BS 7671:2008 states:
Good workmanship by competent persons or persons under their supervision and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. Electrical equipment shall be installed in accordance with the instructions provided by the manufacturer on the equipment.

So reading the manufacturers data/instruction they'll tell you to torque set it to X amount.

 

[davesparks]

Difference being Torque screwdrivers/ torque setting screws etc is now regulations.

Which regulation would that be then?

 

[Geordie Spark]

Regulation

So reading the manufacturers data/instruction they'll tell you to torque set it to X amount.

Some of these terminals are of such poor quality you hardly need a screwdriver at all - you can almost push them in with your thumb just like a press stud!

 

[Andy78]

Regulation

So reading the manufacturers data/instruction they'll tell you to torque set it to X amount.

Except where manufacturers instructions are not relevant or improper to the correct and safe installation of equipment, which I have come across many times. And I believe the wording of this reg has changed in the BYB anyway.

 

[Brad1]

I suggest you buy well known brands which are CE marked and checked and not skimp out on poor products that'll have poor connection/terminations.

 

[spud1]

Except where manufacturers instructions are not relevant or improper to the correct and safe installation of equipment, which I have come across many times. And I believe the wording of this reg has changed in the BYB anyway.

As in Competent person becomes skilled person. What will this person be in the 18th edition? A master craftsman, perhaps godlike in the 19th?

 

[Geordie Spark]

She already think she knows everything about being a sparky! I've yet to break it to her that RCD doesn't really stand for REALLY CLEVER DEVICE though!

As long as she's happy thinking that I wouldn't bother confusing her with what it means.

 

[Andy78]

I suggest you buy well known brands which are CE marked and checked and not skimp out on poor products that'll have poor connection/terminations.

I always do my good fellow, but I don't always supply all the equipment I install. I don't always install equipment I have not provided either.

 

[davesparks]

Regulation

So reading the manufacturers data/instruction they'll tell you to torque set it to X amount.

Do they? the MIs for the KMF switch sitting on my desk at the moment only have a recommended torque for the terminals. A lot of MIs will state a recommended torque and a maximum torque but will very rarely specify a torque that a terminal which connects directly to a cable must be tightened to. This is because the correct torque will be different depending on the size and type of conductor being terminated.

 

[Brad1]

So going back to the regulation. They( the manufacturer) has stated in their instructions/data a recommended Torque which as yourself has just confirmed and so not following that recommendation which they have stated is not following the instructions which is written in black and white on the data sheet is technically breaking a "regulation." Like the whole IEE wiring regulations, it's not law to follow them but against the law if you don't. Some questions are better off not asked/answered, but that's what they'll say if (Unfortunately and hope it never does) it went to court. These days it's all about covering your backside in our world and pass the blame back to the manufacturer.

 

[specs]

I keep coming across CU's where the standard is well below par, you need muscles like 'Garth' to get the screws in the neutral and earth bars to tighten. The builder keeps coming back with units from the 'sheds' which I now point blank refuse to fit. yes they are cheaper, but they are also crap and in my opinion dangerous.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I keep coming across CU's where the standard is well below par, you need muscles like 'Garth' to get the screws in the neutral and earth bars to tighten. The builder keeps coming back with units from the 'sheds' which I now point blank refuse to fit. yes they are cheaper, but they are also crap and in my opinion dangerous.

It's not only the thread profiles that are wrong and out of tolerance, the material is crap too and the heads are misshapen so no matter how good your screwdriver is it still doesn't fit the screw head properly!!

Your Torque Screwdriver will NEVER make up for that!!

 

[davesparks]

So going back to the regulation. They( the manufacturer) has stated in their instructions/data a recommended Torque which as yourself has just confirmed and so not following that recommendation which they have stated is not following the instructions which is written in black and white on the data sheet is technically breaking a "regulation." Like the whole IEE wiring regulations, it's not law to follow them but against the law if you don't. Some questions are better off not asked/answered, but that's what they'll say if (Unfortunately and hope it never does) it went to court. These days it's all about covering your backside in our world and pass the blame back to the manufacturer.

Yes a recommended torque, not a specified torque. There is no obligation to follow that recommendation. A tradesman will be able to make his own assessment of how tight a termination needs to be.

It is not against the law of you don't follow the IEE regulations and you cannot be prosecuted directly for failing to comply with them. They are referenced in some legal documents and can be used to support a case against you.