Use of 20AX switches in spurs off ring main

[GeorgeCooke]

In that case I will correct you.
First it is a plug, not a plug top. Overloading of the ring final is taken care of by the 32 a MCB in the CU (prievously a 30a wire fuse).
Initially a range of fuses were introduced 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 10, and 13a all in different colours. Can't remember all the colours but 3a was blue. As the fuse was only to protect the appliance flex it was later decided that only 3a and 13a were appropriate. At the same time 3a became red, 13a remained brown and all the other unofficial values became black.

 

[Toneyz]

Thanks for the inputs so far. I don't have an issue with above counter switches - they are a convenience to isolate an appliance before pulling it out and then struggling in to remove the plug from the socket on the back wall. I also like to turn off some items if going away on holiday and this also makes it easy - rather than going to the CU and turning off the whole ring. My debate was more along the lines of 'why do switch suppliers sell a range of switches that can't be used for the function printed on them'. Putting a fused switch above the counter protects the 600mm of cable to the 13A socket, but the appliance plug top 13A fuse is what does the real protection. I reckon 600mm of cable is more reliable than the average white appliance. I will follow up on the reg 433.1.204 suggestion.

We used to have a bank of grid switches and a single unswitched socket in an adjacent cupboard, however, this needs to still be accessible. You can also have an individual D.P. switch engraved if required. Never had a problem with a fuse blowing more the case of the RCD tripping.

 

[Midwest]

In that case I will correct you.
First it is a plug, not a plug top. Overloading of the ring final is taken care of by the 32 a MCB in the CU (prievously a 30a wire fuse).
Initially a range of fuses were introduced 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 10, and 13a all in different colours. Can't remember all the colours but 3a was blue. As the fuse was only to protect the appliance flex it was later decided that only 3a and 13a were appropriate. At the same time 3a became red, 13a remained brown and all the other unofficial values became black.

If you look at the history of socket outlets, you will read there were also referred to as ‘plugs’, certainly my elders did, and as the term ‘plugs’ was used to call a socket, myself and others referred to plugs as ‘plug tops’, to differentiate between the two. If you get my drift.

I take your point about overload protection, but I was referring to the whole design of an RFC, and fusing was used to limit the scope of appliances, from the previous 15A max.

Still stand by my point, the original 1362 fuses were 3 & 13A (although I see 7A mentioned).

 

[Ian1981]

If a single appliance is used in the socket fed from a 20amp grid switch then what overload protection is required and actually needed?
A single appliance with a plug top will not overload anything provided that the cable feeding the socket is selected accordingly

 

[Silly Sausage]

I use 20A BS1362 fuses, saves fuse swapping time ...
20A Fuse for 13A Plug - BS1362 - https://www.pat-testing-training.net/articles/20a-mains-plug-fuse.php

 

[Toneyz]

I use 20A BS1362 fuses, saves fuse swapping time ...
20A Fuse for 13A Plug - BS1362 - https://www.pat-testing-training.net/articles/20a-mains-plug-fuse.php

This is a public part of the forum feel it is a bit foolish to be posting something like this coming from a qualified electrician we know it is fakes but others may not.

 

[Toneyz]

I use 20A BS1362 fuses, saves fuse swapping time ...
20A Fuse for 13A Plug - BS1362 - https://www.pat-testing-training.net/articles/20a-mains-plug-fuse.php

This is a public part of the forum.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

If you look at the history of socket outlets, you will read there were also referred to as ‘plugs’, certainly my elders did, and as the term ‘plugs’ was used to call a socket, myself and others referred to plugs as ‘plug tops’, to differentiate between the two. If you get my drift.

I certainly understand it has been wrong for decades. Time to learn from those mistakes methinks.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

If you look at the history of socket outlets, you will read there were also referred to as ‘plugs’, certainly my elders did, and as the term ‘plugs’ was used to call a socket, myself and others referred to plugs as ‘plug tops’, to differentiate between the two. If you get my drift.

I certainly understand it has been wrong for decades. Time to learn from those mistakes methinks.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

A single appliance with a plug top will not overload anything provided that the cable feeding the socket is selected accordingly

It' a plug. A plug top is the cover of the plug.

 

[Ian1981]

It' a plug. A plug top is the cover of the plug.

Plug top where I come from.
Plug top in my wholesalers.
Plug top.

 

[Midwest]

Plug top me too

 

[Midwest]

I certainly understand it has been wrong for decades. Time to learn from those mistakes methinks.

Two posts don't make a wrong right

 

[ferg]

Plug top for me too.

Although perversely people calling sockets 'plugs' Drives me nuts.

 

[SJD]

Wikipedia says:

"A wall socket or outlet (also known as a power point in the UK,[1] receptacle in the US,[2] general purpose outlet or GPO in Australia and New Zealand,[3] and less commonly plug socket[4] or wall plug[5]) built into the wall of a building, connected to energized electrical wires. Because it has holes it is known as a female connector. Sockets may also appear on portable equipment, such as portable generator, extension cords or power strips, but are still generally the half of the connection that provides the electricity. "

"A plug (also known as plug top in the UK[6]) generally has matching pins (also known blades or prongs in the US, especially if flat) so it is known as a male connector, and it is connected by a mains cable (power cord) or physically built into a piece of electrical equipment that consumes electricity. Some types of socket have male pins and the matching plugs have female contacts, but for safety reasons these are only used for earthing (grounding in US English). Some plugs have built-in fuses for safety."

Personally I hate the terms "plug socket" and "plug top" but unfortunately some customers insist on using them.

 

[MFS Electrical]

Re the argument about above worktop isolators; a lot of my customers didn't like them, so a socket in an adjoining cupboard is sufficient.

Re the OP's question; App 15 is the informative guide to spurs off RFC. Would a 20A DP switch, followed by a 13A socket could be construed as more than outlet? Done it loads myself, but perhaps thats his sparks thinking.

I wouldn’t say so the 20A switch is simply a replacement for a socket and the socket switched by the 20A switch is effectively an unfused spur

 

[Phillip]

Sorry but that’s not correct. They are required by Scottish Building Standards, so the statement isn’t actually correct.

Mandatory Standard 4
4.8.5 Access to manual controls

...Where sockets are concealed, such as to the rear of white goods in a kitchen, separate switching should be provided in an accessible position to allow appliances to be isolated.

Fixtures (sockets/switches) etc should be acted at lease 150mm above he worktop. (I've paraphrased that whole paragraph).

I appreciate you don’t have to fit them in England and Wales as far as I know? Either way it’s good practice for emergencies. I think little sparks comments are very pertinent. Do you not fit shower isolator switches in bathrooms or oven isolators in kitchens then?

To the op - if your electrician has an issue with the switches and the supply cable to the load not being protected why no incorporate a FCU module into the grid switch?

that's what I do