Who Says REAL does Nothing?

[The Solar King]

[h=2]REAL provides evidence to Companies Investigation Branch in respect of solar PV company[/h] Solar Energy Savings Limited (SES), a company which marketed and sold solar PV systems to the general public, was wound-up on 26 July 2012 by the High Court in Manchester in the public interest. This was as a result of a petition presented by the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills.

SES was never a member of the REAL Consumer Code, and nor was the company ever certified by MCS, though it did work closely with companies that are. Over the past two years REAL has received a high number of serious complaints and negative feedback about SES. REAL provided details of this anonymised information as evidence in support of the case for SES to be wound up.
The complaints and negative feedback about SES recorded by REAL included reports of high pressure sales tactics, the targeting of older and vulnerable people and the provision of misleading claims relating to pay-back and return on investment.

SES did not object to the making of a winding-up order against it by the Secretary of State on the grounds alleged, which included details of multiple mis-selling practices.


Commenting on the case, Virginia Graham, Chief Executive of REAL, said: “It is quite unacceptable for companies to prey on consumers in this way, inducing them to part with their hard-earned savings on false pretences. These mis-selling practices bring the whole sector into disrepute and will not be tolerated.”

For more information about the case, see here:
Insolvency Service media information for journalists and the press - Press Releases - Insolvency Service investigation leads to shut down of major national solar panel company - Insolvency Service

Nice one Virginia! I can't think of anyone who will be sad to see the back of this crowd. A friend of mine fell for them. Fortunately his lawyer managed to get his deposit back after I provided an expert witness statement proving what they had done was close to fraud.

REAL are unable to divulge the outcome of investigations until everything is concluded as in this case. I know at times this means they seem ineffective, but I wouldn't recommend crossing them.

 

[SolarCity]

They nearly got someone I know too. Crooks.

Unfortunately, far from feeling that justice has been done, this just illustrates how toothless REAL are.

The customers that have been ripped off wont get their money back, the public's view of the industry hasn't been repaired and the company owners will have no doubt made themselves very rich. They probably surprised themselves how long they could actually keep the con going.

 

[trev]

I was lucky, I got an job offer fitting for them and after advice from people on here I knocked them back. A guy I know was pretty much forced by the jobcentre to take a canvassing job with them and was treat like dirt the whole time he was there, he went into work one day as normal then got a text at 11pm that night telling him the Newcastle office had been closed.
A few weeks back he got another text asking if he wanted to go back so they obviously have some sort of plans. Apparently this was the second scam they've been involved in so there's bound to be a third

 

[Gavin A]

have they taken any action against the MCS accredited sub-contractors? If not, then they're failing the industry, as without these sort of sub contractors for the scammers there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[The Solar King]

If you think how long it can take the Serious Fraud Squad to shut someone down I would say REAL have done OK. To get a winding up order from the Secretary of State would mean irrefutable evidence that could not be challenged in Court.

You are right about those who have been ripped off, but the same would be true if it were a criminal case. If you think there should be a compensation scheme are you willing to pay for it? If there were such a thing it would be us the industry who would be forced to stump up.

It is a long road to repairing the industry's reputation, but at least this is a step along the way.

The depressing thing is other than the fact these people are hopefully banned from holding directorships, they will undoubtedly pop up in some other field and sully that. If you are that amoral, that is what you do.

 

[solarsavings]

Are you telling us that this came about as a direct result of action taken by REAL and in particular your "friend" VG.

SES did not object to the making of a winding-up order against it by the Secretary of State on the grounds alleged, which included details of multiple mis-selling practices.

​

Why would it when the directors had made their money and knew the industry was heading for skid row.
​

 

[The Solar King]

Yes and Yes. She is not my friend but someone I have been fortunate to meet on several occasions.

Gavin A A good point. Anyone working for SES since December would be in breach of MCS sub-contracting rules. I would be guessing if I said anything.

 

[Gavin A]

well it only has any impact if they both strike off or give final warnings to the subbies, and make it very public that they've done this.

it has very little impact if nobody knows it's happened, as there's no deterrent factor for anyone else doing the same thing.

 

[solarsavings]

I realise that real played a part in this but not the major part you want to claim form them. Is that mis-selling?

You (and gavin) are right though in that anyone installing for them since last December could end up suffering the wrath of VG and her cohorts

 

[The Solar King]

I am pretty certain this was all instigated by REAL. They will have given the gun and the ammunition to the right person and told them where to aim it.

 

[solarsavings]

I'm pretty certain that real were able to confirm that SESL were not real members. That they were able to give investigators a copy of the code which we (members) have to abide by. And strangely, non members err..flout.

As I said previously, I'm happy to accept they(real) played a small part in this, the rest, is imo blowing smoke.............

 

[The Solar King]

I'm pretty certain that real were able to confirm that SESL were not real members. That they were able to give investigators a copy of the code which we (members) have to abide by. And strangely, non members err..flout.

As I said previously, I'm happy to accept they(real) played a small part in this, the rest, is imo blowing smoke.............

i don't think it will matter what I say and you are welcome to your opinion.

Just ask yourself who drove this and why. If you were REAL and wanted to remove this lot from the industry to the benefit of consumers and the rest of us, how would you go about it? Why would other agencies have the body of complaints and evidence? As this would cover Trading Standards Offices in many different locations how would anyone of them know the scale of activity? Why would the insolvency service become involved as a route to shut this lot down? Where did the Insolvency Service get the evidence? Did the Secretary of State wake up one morning with the idea of winding up SES?

It is a pity you feel the need to belittle REAL when they are finally shown to do the very thing we all want them to.

 

[Worcester]

It was a winding up order for INSOLVENCY..

At trial, Solar did not admit the Secretary of State’s allegations but did not object to the making of a winding up order on the grounds alleged by the Secretary of State and the Court was satisfied that Solar should be wound up

the clause that they used was S124A - the 'Public Interest' clause

[F1124A Petition for winding up on grounds of public interest.(1)Where it appears to the Secretary of State from—
(a)any report made or information obtained under Part XIV [F2(except section 448A)] of the M1 Companies Act 1985 (company investigations, &c.),
[F3(b)any report made by inspectors under—
(i)section 167, 168, 169 or 284 of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000, or
(ii)where the company is an open-ended investment company (within the meaning of that Act), regulations made as a result of section 262(2)(k) of that Act;
(bb)any information or documents obtained under section 165, 171, 172, 173 or 175 of that Act,]
(c)any information obtained under section 2 of the M2 Criminal Justice Act 1987 or [F4section 28 of the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995] (fraud investigations), or
(d)any information obtained under section 83 of the Companies Act 1989 (powers exercisable for purpose of assisting overseas regulatory authorities),
that it is expedient in the public interest that a company should be wound up, he may present a petition for it to be wound up if the court thinks it just and equitable for it to be so.
(2)This section does not apply if the company is already being wound up by the court.]

Someone must have pocked at stick at them to bring that to court, it is not high enough profile for them to do it on their own initiative, and most of the members of the public don't have the finances or perserverance to make it happen.

The Public, us, and REAL are the ones who gain from both the outcome and publicity, and although REAL can't claim the full process, they are clearly instrumental in brining it to court, and making it stick.

Welll done Virginia.

 

[solarsavings]

There are those in this industry that want to ingratiate themselves with our lords and masters and willingly join every body they can(only they know why for certain some of us have to guess) Some know better than others how to take this industry forward and that it needs more regulation on top of regulation will stop at nothing to ensure it arrives where they want it to. They are the ones who claim that they are doing it for the good of the industry and our customers. That of course could be true.......

Equally there are those of us who see this sham/scam for what it is and resent being forced to comply with an unnecessary load of bureaucracy dreampt up by those on the equivalent of a funded (not by government but by us) yops scheme. I see them in the same light as our greedy self serving politicians.

You mentioned trading standards who I believe were the driving force behind the demise of sesl. They have all the powers needed to regulate this industry but you have to have jobs for the boys(and girls)

I thought it very telling when I read the statement "they didn't know what the customers needs and were for the most part anally retentive" or words to that effect. ;-)

I firmly believe there is now more than one industry that uses fluffers.

 

[moggy1968]

It's unfortunate they didn't pursue it to a criminal case, then they could have gone after the directors for profiting from criminal activity and the punters might have got some money back.

One solution, if some of these were rent a roofs, might be to void the contract and give the FiTS back to the homeowners.

 

[jason121]

[h=2]Company Summary[/h] Company Name Company Status ECOGLAZE LTD Active GLOBAL INDUSTRIES (GBL) LTD Active GLOBAL MANAGEMENT SERVICES EUROPE LTD Active GLOBAL MANAGEMENT SERVICES USA LTD Active FIRST CHESHIRE FINANCE SOLUTIONS LTD In Liquidation SOLAR ENERGY SAVINGS LTD In Liquidation UK MONITORING & RESPONSE SOLUTIONS LTD In Liquidation DREAMS KITCHENS & BEDROOMS LTD Dissolved SAFE & SECURE REAL ESTATE & INVESTMENTS LTD Dissolved

[h=2]ECOGLAZE LTD[/h]

 

[wiggly]

jason,
Global managment services was the overall holding company for solar energy savings ltd.
My understanding is that they are operation exactly the same but with a new name ( which ive not confirmed yet)
global managment services also are involved with the install company which they owned based in eastkilbride which is also still trading. rules can be broken.
its the ones playing by the rules that have to deal with all compliances.

regards
wiggly

 

[MCS Renewables]

Perhaps Virginia could explain why these companies have never been dealt with :-

They all have the same business model , work nationally with fleets of suited liars, telephone call centres and poor quality subbies and get away with it all .....

Solar Fusion Bournemouth, shocking oversellers, hard sale, crap subbies - lost REAL license once but got it back on appeal and carried on exactly as before .

Ideal Solar, aka Solartricity, aka Ideal Group Ringwood, shocking oversellers, hard sale, crap subbies, featured in a Watchdog report, lost REAL license once but got it back on appeal and carried exactly as before.

Simplee Solar , aka Staywarm, aka Energy Conservation Group, aka REDS Tech, Tricketts Cross, Dorset , same as above , fined £40K by Bournemouth trading standards but still in REAL ??

Apple Conservatories, Ferndown, Dorset , same business model, refused to give deposits back even after warning from REAL , currently charge £14K for 2kW, "sign now or else" sort of deal,

Four of the worst offenders in the UK all within about 10 miles of other.


All of these companies are woeful, give our industry a bad name and Virginia knows about each one, we alone have sent her enough proof so she could write a book on each.

Nothing is done, ever.

If any of the above companies gets threatened, REAL back away as these rogues are too cash rich and assemble legal teams and REAL are penniless to fight.

So the answer seems to be rip people off , make a fortune and put yourself in a position where the governing body is scared to police you and cannot afford to remove you.

As an example there was a "set up" house in Ferndown in early 2011 , 70 year old gent, very very shaded house, one bath a week, very little electrical usage who wanted PV and thermal . The property was totally unsuitable for any renewables and 17 companies including ours were asked to quote for the works .
Out of the 17 of us who attended to do the survey only 2 of us refused to quote !

The other fifteen .............still in REAL ..........Still allowed to trade .......Why ???????????

 

[moggy1968]

I know of 2 companies in Dorset, one Apple as above, who were quoting 23grand last nov for a 4kW system. Very agressive sales tactics including sign tonight deals. The salesman I spoke to, rather than being a slimy suited type was a swarthy tatooed badly spoken yoof!!

One of their 'customers' I spoke to was quoted 23 grand and was delighted to get them down to 14, Didn't have the heart to tell him we would have done it for 9! The most bizzare thing was, he said he didn't like the salesman, but he went ahead anyway!!
The day before the install, the installer came out and realised the system the salesman had quoted for was never going to fit, so they had to fit a smaller one!