working as an electrician when not qualified?

[Mike Blair]

Im 19 and have my level 2,3 2365 and 17th edition and had around 1.5 years work experience as an electricians mate. I have been trying to find work as an electricians mate but no luck because i can not drive. But i have been offered small electrical work i know how to do. but i have always been a bit weird about working with my current qualifications on my own as i am only qualified as an electricians mate from what my college told me. until i get my 2394,5 i can not get with napit etc etc. What should i do i need the money and no one will take me on because i can not drive. small jobs would help me out big time right now in time for driving lessons etc but is it ilegal / wrong working with my current qualifications? i only do jobs i know how to do ,comfortable with

 

[cotty]

Even I have insurance as a sparks mate. It costs £8 a month and covers me public and personal.

Why people don't have insurance is beyond me and I cannot endorse that.

My previous points do stand though.

You're obviously working where insurance is needed! My point is, for minor works as a trainee, why need insurance for minor works if you are competent? We've all done jobs here and there lol! I must be the only fraud on this site then! Oh well

 

[uksparks]

Well done for jumping on the bandwagon  I thought someone who hasn't completed their apprenticeship would be more subtle!

What makes you suggest ive not completed an apprenticeship?

 

[Andy78]

Some of the naivety on this thread is astounding. How could anyone of any substance or understanding persuade anyone to work without insurance, and especially on a public forum ?
Should I cancel my contents and buildings insurance because I'm not planning on getting burgled or having a fire ?
In the event of something going wrong then competency has to be proved, not just known or reckoned by the individual.

Completion or supplementation of training should not be carried out in the public domain whilst charging customers for the privilege. Such foolhardy behaviour is for those who do not fully appreciate or understand the responsibilities involved in our profession.

 

[bigash]

Broad range of work so yes insurance is needed, I wouldn't want to f up a motor install on an industrial, too many zeros at the end of the figure for my liking.

I can see what you are saying as in x electrician works for y company and is employed by that company but on Saturday undertakes work for Mr M down the road when he would not be covered by insurance.

 

[davesparks]

Insurance is there for when you f**k up! If you are competent to do the required job then why worry? At the end of the day, I'm talking about minor works! Get a grip! Jeez, it's not rocket science changing a socket or light switch!

I think the worst damage I have ever done to a customers property was at a single lightswitch. I'd caught a wire with a plate screw and the resultant black streak up the antique wallpaper cost my company a heck of a lot of money!

Or there is story from another industry I work in, a freelancer subcontracted to a company assumed the company's insurance would cover him and he was experienced and considered competant etc. It wasn't until after he crashed a large video wall in to the stage floor that he discovered that he wasn't covered.

 

[cotty]

What makes you suggest ive not completed an apprenticeship?

Thanks for the confirmation chin up hey

 

[uksparks]

You're obviously working where insurance is needed! My point is, for minor works as a trainee, why need insurance for minor works if you are competent? We've all done jobs here and there lol! I must be the only fraud on this site then! Oh well 

Minor works can actually be quite big things, you could be doing work in a special location for example, or you could even make lots of changes to multiple circuits and still class it as minor works. If you as to to get technical, a minor works certificate could be used for something like making quote big changes to a circuit when an EIC would be issued for a single socket next to the consumer unit which is less minor in a sense than making lots of potentially big changes to a circuit.

 

[uksparks]

Thanks for the confirmation  chin up hey 

No, I didn't say that, you are presuming and quite wrong.

 

[cotty]

I think some people are exaggerating! How are trainees supposed to learn if they can't crack on with a menial job!

 

[cotty]

Minor works can actually be quite big things, you could be doing work in a special location for example, or you could even make lots of changes to multiple circuits and still class it as minor works. If you as to to get technical, a minor works certificate could be used for something like making quote big changes to a circuit when an EIC would be issued for a single socket next to the consumer unit which is less minor in a sense than making lots of potentially big changes to a circuit.

And your point??

 

[uksparks]

I agree to an extent, but how far do you keep pushing your limits? Before you know if someone will say change my fuse box and you say yes. Either way though, you should be insured!

 

[uksparks]

And your point??

I was just saying that you were suggesting that it's ok to do uninsured minor works, so was just stating what is deemed as minor.

 

[Andy78]

I think some people are exaggerating! How are trainees supposed to learn if they can't crack on with a menial job!

You'd be happy for a gas fitter to work in your house with the same attitude ?

"Hey I don't have insurance but that's for chumps right ? I don't need anyone to tell me how to do gas work I know I'm fine and that's all that matters lol. I'll finish your boiler install right after I've been on an internet forum and asked for help cos there are some bits I'm not sure of. Trust me geezer it'll all be fine."

 

[cotty]

You'd be happy for a gas fitter to work in your house with the same attitude ?

"Hey I don't have insurance but that's for chumps right ? I don't need anyone to tell me how to do gas work I know I'm fine and that's all that matters lol. I'll finish your boiler install right after I've been on an internet forum and asked for help cos there are some bits I'm not sure of. Trust me geezer it'll all be fine."

You probably mean "plumber"! And there's a big difference between a boiler change and changing a socket!

 

[uksparks]

Very true!

re: #53

 

[davesparks]

I think some people are exaggerating! How are trainees supposed to learn if they can't crack on with a menial job!

When they are working with me trainees learn by doing the real work under my supervision as required. The menial jobs I often do myself so that they can carry on with the jobs they will learn more from.

 

[uksparks]

You probably mean "plumber"! And there's a big difference between a boiler change and changing a socket!

i don't know so much, both have the potential to kill.

i guess you could compare boiled change to new consumer unit.

 

[uksparks]

When they are working with me trainees learn by doing the real work under my supervision as required. The menial jobs I often do myself so that they can carry on with the jobs they will learn more from.

Sounds good to me

 

[Andy78]

You probably mean "plumber"! And there's a big difference between a boiler change and changing a socket!

So the OP is going to be changing sockets for customers and nothing else ? I have not been made aware of this information.

 

[Leesparkykent]

You'd be happy for a gas fitter to work in your house with the same attitude ?

"Hey I don't have insurance but that's for chumps right ? I don't need anyone to tell me how to do gas work I know I'm fine and that's all that matters lol. I'll finish your boiler install right after I've been on an internet forum and asked for help cos there are some bits I'm not sure of. Trust me geezer it'll all be fine."

haha hey I'm such a pro I'm not even going to test it as I know my soldering is second to none lol

 

[uksparks]

Right I'm going to sleep! I mean it this time!

 

[bigash]

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...637-public-liability-insurance-necessary.html

may be worth a look at re: insurance.

 

[cotty]

Quote post 4 & 5 and leave it at that!

 

[uksparks]

if you feel competent to do it, go for it. there's only 1 person that can help you and that is yourself. please feel free to pm me if you need any advice.

Quote post 4 & 5 and leave it at that!

I wouldn't suggesting twisting of telectrix post #4. What you are saying is do uninsured work.

 

[cotty]

I wouldn't suggesting twisting of telectrix post #4. What you are saying is do uninsured work.

Giving the guy confidence! Nothing to do with insurance!

 

[cotty]

I stand by my guns! Anyone who's completed the 2365 level 2 and 3 should be more than capable of doing minor works! In fact they should be capable of inspecting and testing their own installations!

 

[Knobhead]

When they are working with me trainees learn by doing the real work under my supervision as required. The menial jobs I often do myself so that they can carry on with the jobs they will learn more from.

Sounds good to me

It’s not just a good way, it’s the best way. It’s how I was treated as an apprentice and how I treated apprentices later.

You have a job to do and you set out how you’re going to do it, at that point you ask for confirmation. If it’s good, you move on to the next part of the job. On it goes to completion. At that point it becomes your work and you’ll take pride in. The trainee will have learnt far more than they would by doing what “Joe” said.

 

[cotty]

It’s not just a good way, it’s the best way. It’s how I was treated as an apprentice and how I treated apprentices later.

You have a job to do and you set out how you’re going to do it, at that point you ask for confirmation. If it’s good, you move on to the next part of the job. On it goes to completion. At that point it becomes your work and you’ll take pride in. The trainee will have learnt far more than they would by doing what “Joe” said.

A little bit off track! We'd all love an apprenticeship these days! Fact is they are few and far between! The OP was asking about small jobs etc... Mike had some very good advice in the first 5 posts!

 

[bigash]

It’s not just a good way, it’s the best way. It’s how I was treated as an apprentice and how I treated apprentices later.

You have a job to do and you set out how you’re going to do it, at that point you ask for confirmation. If it’s good, you move on to the next part of the job. On it goes to completion. At that point it becomes your work and you’ll take pride in. The trainee will have learnt far more than they would by doing what “Joe” said.

I get treated like an apprentice maybe that's because everyone I work with I tell them where I'm at in my studies and what I want to achieve.

I would not do just what "bob" says especially if it is wrong and there is no pride in this or ownership.

 

[cotty]

I get treated like an apprentice maybe that's because everyone I work with I tell them where I'm at in my studies and what I want to achieve.

I would not do just what "bob" says especially if it is wrong and there is no pride in this or ownership.

Nowt wrong with being an apprentice! I wouldn't do what Bob said either

 

[Knobhead]

I get treated like an apprentice maybe that's because everyone I work with I tell them where I'm at in my studies and what I want to achieve.

I would not do just what "bob" says especially if it is wrong and there is no pride in this or ownership.

Good way and I’ll bet you get more help by setting out your goals first.

Nowt wrong with being an apprentice! I wouldn't do what Bob said either 

So what happens when “Bob” tells you to do something in a certain way?

 

[cotty]

Good way and I’ll bet you get more help by setting out your goals first.



So what happens when “Bob” tells you to do something in a certain way?

Now you are just biding for a fight lol Of course I would do as instructed from a mentor! I certainly wouldn't take advice from the site "Bob" lol.....

 

[Engineer54]

Providing the OP acquires the relatively inexpensive appropriate insurance(s) i can't see a problem for him to take on paying electrical work. He holds a level 3 core electrical qualification, has his 17th, and has 18 months experience working as a mate on site.

That's a bloody darn sight more and a far cry from the 1000s upon 1000's of bloody 17 day/Electrical Trainee chancers hold, and will in most cases, ever hold!!

 

[Mike Blair]

Thanks for all the advice guys!! helped a lot

 

[Knobhead]

So what are you going to do?

 

[123]

Mike, follow the more sensible advice and before you do anything get some PL Insurance. 1M of cover for domestic work only doesn't cost a lot, probably could get it for £60-£80 a year.

That insurance is a must and anyone working without it is walking a fine line. It's nothing to do with how competent you feel you are, you could drop your pliers and damage a floor, damage wall paper etc etc

 

[bigash]

Mike, follow the more sensible advice and before you do anything get some PL Insurance. 1M of cover for domestic work only doesn't cost a lot, probably could get it for £60-£80 a year.

That insurance is a must and anyone working without it is walking a fine line. It's nothing to do with how competent you feel you are, you could drop your pliers and damage a floor, damage wall paper etc etc

Best advice yet.

 

[Mike Blair]

yeahh im getting pl insurance for domestic straight away and i will carry out minor electrical work with cctv and alarm systems and i will test the electrical systems i do and log them for future if needed

 

[Andy78]

I get my insurance through this place
Business insurance - Compare quotes - Simply Business

Not a bad place to start comparing quotes

 

[bigash]

Exactly as the post above.