Kitchen Socket Circuits??

[Paul505]

Thoughts please... probably heard it all before ;-)
At some point I will be having a new kitchen fitted and I am going to be carrying out all the electrical works and any advice on the modern wiring methods of today would be appreciated.
I'm used to the old wiring methods, where it was about switching appliances below on/off from above the worktops. Fast forward and its all about hiding stuff away with hardly anything on show. The kitchen fitters love it, my electrical friends love it who are actively installing new kitchens and so does the wife
Below is what I've been toying with in my thoughts.....

Option 1: Dedicated RFC for appliances on a grid switch setup mounted on the back of a wall unit switching un-switched s/s/o mounted behind the appliances from each named d/p grid switch. General sockets above worktop to keep on existing house RFC. Cooker Switch to be mounted next to grid setup. Fridge/Freezer possibly on its own dedicated circuit and combo/microwave on another dedicated within the grid setup. (Everything in one place)

Option 2: Dedicated kitchen RFC only with sockets for all appliances in adjacent cupboards with general sockets above the worktop on the same RFC. Every socket on the ring and no un-fused spurs. (Everything else the same as above regarding Fridge, micro/combo)

Option 3: Old School method.... in the past apparently.

 

[Paul505]

Not sure about that one... why without sounding rude?
I've heard of quick flow connectors on appliances that have had there plugs cut off? A bit like the flex outlet method of old which I never liked.

Just to add if there's a problem with an appliance... it has to come out regardless of where the plug in point is anyway.

 

[Ian1981]

Use grids all the time never had a problem with them Either 4 gang 3 or 2.
They are a particular favourite of most of the house builders and are specified on the drawings for the kitchen layout.
Not sure why it’s a problem putting a socket behind an appliance either as is the norm with new builds our company carry out and I’m unaware of any problems while doing this.
If the appliances are tight tho then the appliance fitter will advise and we fit an a unswitched fused spur with flex outlet but always behind the appliance which is controlled by a DP switch in a grid set up.

 

[Octopus]

Just to add if there's a problem with an appliance... it has to come out regardless of where the plug in point is anyway.

I have lost count how many times a tripping rcd has been traced to an appliance with the plug in an inaccessible position

 

[Paul505]

Use grids all the time never had a problem with them Either 4 gang 3 or 2.
They are a particular favourite of most of the house builders and are specified on the drawings for the kitchen layout.
Not sure why it’s a problem putting a socket behind an appliance either as is the norm with new builds our company carry out and I’m unaware of any problems while doing this.
If the appliances are tight tho then the appliance fitter will advise and we fit an a unswitched fused spur with flex outlet but always behind the appliance which is controlled by a DP switch in a grid set up.

Do you have the grid on show?

 

[123]

Against the ceiling in the downstairs toilet, a few metres from the kitchen.
Lets hear your preferred method?

A little far away

I have no preferred method, every kitchen is different.

From Pull Up Sockets in the worktop, to pull down sockets hidden in the wall units. Isolators in a Larder unit for appliances to some grid switching, or a sub DB for appliances. Also have the likes of a bank of switches contolling contactors, but that can get expensive.

 

[123]

I have lost count how many times a tripping rcd has been traced to an appliance with the plug in an inaccessible position

As long as it can be isolated it shouldn't matter too much where it plugs in

 

[123]

lost count of the number of burnt out grid switches i've seen. some just defunct, some bridged out due to failure. only ever fitted 1 4 gang grid for kitchen appliances. bit me in the arse when the freezer switch failed and customer hit me with a £300 bill for ruined food. never again on my watch.

If it was a fault with the grid module and not an installation error then I'd be chasing the wholesaler about the bill for that...

Unless you bought it off ebay or the like, in which case good luck chasing that up

 

[Octopus]

As long as it can be isolated it shouldn't matter too much where it plugs in

When it's the plug or socket that's faulty .......

Each to their own ....

The 18th should explicitly state how these connections should be achieved.

 

[123]

Not sure about that one... why without sounding rude?
I've heard of quick flow connectors on appliances that have had there plugs cut off? A bit like the flex outlet method of old which I never liked.

With Integrated appliances, Dishwasher especially but some makes of Fridge/Freezer and other appliances...there is no space for the plug & socket so the appliance can't be pushed back.

 

[123]

When it's the plug or socket that's faulty .......

Each to their own ....

The 18th should explicitly state how these connections should be achieved.

Why should it? I don't see a need for BS7671 to give a step by step guide of how every installation should be done.

Tumble Dryers aside I think I have yet to come across a plug that's gone faulty on a domestic appliance without another fault present.

 

[Paul505]

I have lost count how many times a tripping rcd has been traced to an appliance with the plug in an inaccessible position

I have lost count how many times a tripping rcd has been traced to an appliance with the plug in an inaccessible position

Switch all grid switches off or all separate switches , reinstate rcd, switch on one by one, rcd trips on faulty appliance.... fault found. To be honest customers or non electrical people struggle to reinstate an rcd under fault conditions anyway regardless of the position of the sockets. The key bit is that these sockets are preferably double pole switched indirectly or unplugged directly to find a problem, with an understanding of very basic fault finding knowledge.

 

[Paul505]

With Integrated appliances, Dishwasher especially but some makes of Fridge/Freezer and other appliances...there is no space for the plug & socket so the appliance can't be pushed back.

Okay.. I understand. I will be spacing my kitchen base/tower units out due to starting with a blank canvass.

 

[telectrix]

until appliance manufacturers make allowances for a socket outlet & plug behind their stupid appliances, this debate will go on for years. it's not rocket science. appliance needs electricity to work. this is usually supplied by a socket outlet. that's why they fit plugs on their appliances. one day they might realise that these plugs what they fit are not just for decoration. they need to be plugged in to a suitable socket within reach of their ridiculously short leads.

 

[Ian1981]

Do you have the grid on show?

yes

 

[Paul505]

yes

yes

The guys I know install the grid switches in the wall unit with the cooker switch alongside on new sites. Just wandered if you hide any accessories as I gathered you worked on new builds from previous post.

 

[Paul505]

A little far away

I have no preferred method, every kitchen is different.

From Pull Up Sockets in the worktop, to pull down sockets hidden in the wall units. Isolators in a Larder unit for appliances to some grid switching, or a sub DB for appliances. Also have the likes of a bank of switches contolling contactors, but that can get expensive.

Thanks for adding

 

[Paul505]

until appliance manufacturers make allowances for a socket outlet & plug behind their stupid appliances, this debate will go on for years. it's not rocket science. appliance needs electricity to work. this is usually supplied by a socket outlet. that's why they fit plugs on their appliances. one day they might realise that these plugs what they fit are not just for decoration. they need to be plugged in to a suitable socket within reach of their ridiculously short leads.

What's your preferred method anyway?

 

[Paul505]

Thanks for adding

 

[Paul505]

I keep cocking up on this forum with the way I'm replying.
Thanks for the replies tonight gents anyway.... keep them coming still!

 

[rolyberkin]

The only person who would ever think that having an isolation switch in plain view as a preferred option is an electrician or geek. And don't get me onto grid switches. In the last 10 years in my kitchen I have never had to turn off an appliance quickly, and if I had, I could have isolated it by either using the plug in the cupboard next to the appliance or using the functional switch for the circuit in my consumer unit. All appliances are fed from switched single socket outlets in the adjacent cupboard and I always fit kitchens this way. Modern appliances are generally low power consumption so don't sweat the small stuff, put it all on a kitchen rfc, get those switches hidden away, forget about them and move on.

 

[Paul505]

The only person who would ever think that having an isolation switch in plain view as a preferred option is an electrician or geek. And don't get me onto grid switches. In the last 10 years in my kitchen I have never had to turn off an appliance quickly, and if I had, I could have isolated it by either using the plug in the cupboard next to the appliance or using the functional switch for the circuit in my consumer unit. All appliances are fed from switched single socket outlets in the adjacent cupboard and I always fit kitchens this way. Modern appliances are generally low power consumption so don't sweat the small stuff, put it all on a kitchen rfc, get those switches hidden away, forget about them and move on.

Cooker switch... on show or hidden away like your skts in adjacent cupboards?? Like your passion and straight the point answer

 

[Paul505]

The only person who would ever think that having an isolation switch in plain view as a preferred option is an electrician or geek. And don't get me onto grid switches. In the last 10 years in my kitchen I have never had to turn off an appliance quickly, and if I had, I could have isolated it by either using the plug in the cupboard next to the appliance or using the functional switch for the circuit in my consumer unit. All appliances are fed from switched single socket outlets in the adjacent cupboard and I always fit kitchens this way. Modern appliances are generally low power consumption so don't sweat the small stuff, put it all on a kitchen rfc, get those switches hidden away, forget about them and move on.

Cooker switch... on show or hidden away like your skts in adjacent cupboards?? Like your passion and straight the point answer

Cooker switch... on show or hidden away like your skts in adjacent cupboards?? Like your passion and straight the point answer

The only person who would ever think that having an isolation switch in plain view as a preferred option is an electrician or geek. And don't get me onto grid switches. In the last 10 years in my kitchen I have never had to turn off an appliance quickly, and if I had, I could have isolated it by either using the plug in the cupboard next to the appliance or using the functional switch for the circuit in my consumer unit. All appliances are fed from switched single socket outlets in the adjacent cupboard and I always fit kitchens this way. Modern appliances are generally low power consumption so don't sweat the small stuff, put it all on a kitchen rfc, get those switches hidden away, forget about them and move on.

If your not an electrician or a geek.... what are you then?

 

[rolyberkin]

Cooker switch... on show or hidden away like your skts in adjacent cupboards?? Like your passion and straight the point answer

Hidden away of course, in a cupboard next to cooker, is a cooker switch a thing of beauty............no! The only time I need to find a cooker switch is when I change the cooker.

 

[rolyberkin]

Cooker switch... on show or hidden away like your skts in adjacent cupboards?? Like your passion and straight the point answer


If your not an electrician or a geek.... what are you then?

A customer!;-)

 

[Paul505]

A customer!;-)

Hahaaaa