Kitchen Socket Circuits??

[Octopus]

What ever you decide just don't have the plugs for the appliances behind the appliances ....

 

[telectrix]

lost count of the number of burnt out grid switches i've seen. some just defunct, some bridged out due to failure. only ever fitted 1 4 gang grid for kitchen appliances. bit me in the arse when the freezer switch failed and customer hit me with a £300 bill for ruined food. never again on my watch.

 

[123]

What ever you decide just don't have the plugs for the appliances behind the appliances ....

Never a socket behind an integrated appliance, but a trailing socket on the other hand is fine. Gives a lot of flexibility in the installation as well.

 

[Paul505]

lost count of the number of burnt out grid switches i've seen. some just defunct, some bridged out due to failure. only ever fitted 1 4 gang grid for kitchen appliances. bit me in the arse when the freezer switch failed and customer hit me with a £300 bill for ruined food. never again on my watch.

Thanks for the reply.... all the grid set ups seem to be the norm in new builds these days. Plenty of call outs then if that's a common occurrence then!

 

[Paul505]

Never a socket behind an integrated appliance, but a trailing socket on the other hand is fine. Gives a lot of flexibility in the installation as well.

Not sure about that one... why without sounding rude?
I've heard of quick flow connectors on appliances that have had there plugs cut off? A bit like the flex outlet method of old which I never liked.

 

[Paul505]

Not sure about that one... why without sounding rude?
I've heard of quick flow connectors on appliances that have had there plugs cut off? A bit like the flex outlet method of old which I never liked.

Just to add if there's a problem with an appliance... it has to come out regardless of where the plug in point is anyway.

 

[Ian1981]

Use grids all the time never had a problem with them Either 4 gang 3 or 2.
They are a particular favourite of most of the house builders and are specified on the drawings for the kitchen layout.
Not sure why it’s a problem putting a socket behind an appliance either as is the norm with new builds our company carry out and I’m unaware of any problems while doing this.
If the appliances are tight tho then the appliance fitter will advise and we fit an a unswitched fused spur with flex outlet but always behind the appliance which is controlled by a DP switch in a grid set up.

 

[Octopus]

Just to add if there's a problem with an appliance... it has to come out regardless of where the plug in point is anyway.

I have lost count how many times a tripping rcd has been traced to an appliance with the plug in an inaccessible position

 

[Paul505]

Use grids all the time never had a problem with them Either 4 gang 3 or 2.
They are a particular favourite of most of the house builders and are specified on the drawings for the kitchen layout.
Not sure why it’s a problem putting a socket behind an appliance either as is the norm with new builds our company carry out and I’m unaware of any problems while doing this.
If the appliances are tight tho then the appliance fitter will advise and we fit an a unswitched fused spur with flex outlet but always behind the appliance which is controlled by a DP switch in a grid set up.

Do you have the grid on show?

 

[123]

Against the ceiling in the downstairs toilet, a few metres from the kitchen.
Lets hear your preferred method?

A little far away

I have no preferred method, every kitchen is different.

From Pull Up Sockets in the worktop, to pull down sockets hidden in the wall units. Isolators in a Larder unit for appliances to some grid switching, or a sub DB for appliances. Also have the likes of a bank of switches contolling contactors, but that can get expensive.

 

[123]

I have lost count how many times a tripping rcd has been traced to an appliance with the plug in an inaccessible position

As long as it can be isolated it shouldn't matter too much where it plugs in

 

[123]

lost count of the number of burnt out grid switches i've seen. some just defunct, some bridged out due to failure. only ever fitted 1 4 gang grid for kitchen appliances. bit me in the arse when the freezer switch failed and customer hit me with a £300 bill for ruined food. never again on my watch.

If it was a fault with the grid module and not an installation error then I'd be chasing the wholesaler about the bill for that...

Unless you bought it off ebay or the like, in which case good luck chasing that up

 

[Octopus]

As long as it can be isolated it shouldn't matter too much where it plugs in

When it's the plug or socket that's faulty .......

Each to their own ....

The 18th should explicitly state how these connections should be achieved.

 

[123]

Not sure about that one... why without sounding rude?
I've heard of quick flow connectors on appliances that have had there plugs cut off? A bit like the flex outlet method of old which I never liked.

With Integrated appliances, Dishwasher especially but some makes of Fridge/Freezer and other appliances...there is no space for the plug & socket so the appliance can't be pushed back.

 

[123]

When it's the plug or socket that's faulty .......

Each to their own ....

The 18th should explicitly state how these connections should be achieved.

Why should it? I don't see a need for BS7671 to give a step by step guide of how every installation should be done.

Tumble Dryers aside I think I have yet to come across a plug that's gone faulty on a domestic appliance without another fault present.

 

[Paul505]

I have lost count how many times a tripping rcd has been traced to an appliance with the plug in an inaccessible position

I have lost count how many times a tripping rcd has been traced to an appliance with the plug in an inaccessible position

Switch all grid switches off or all separate switches , reinstate rcd, switch on one by one, rcd trips on faulty appliance.... fault found. To be honest customers or non electrical people struggle to reinstate an rcd under fault conditions anyway regardless of the position of the sockets. The key bit is that these sockets are preferably double pole switched indirectly or unplugged directly to find a problem, with an understanding of very basic fault finding knowledge.

 

[Paul505]

With Integrated appliances, Dishwasher especially but some makes of Fridge/Freezer and other appliances...there is no space for the plug & socket so the appliance can't be pushed back.

Okay.. I understand. I will be spacing my kitchen base/tower units out due to starting with a blank canvass.

 

[telectrix]

until appliance manufacturers make allowances for a socket outlet & plug behind their stupid appliances, this debate will go on for years. it's not rocket science. appliance needs electricity to work. this is usually supplied by a socket outlet. that's why they fit plugs on their appliances. one day they might realise that these plugs what they fit are not just for decoration. they need to be plugged in to a suitable socket within reach of their ridiculously short leads.

 

[Ian1981]

Do you have the grid on show?

yes

 

[Paul505]

yes

yes

The guys I know install the grid switches in the wall unit with the cooker switch alongside on new sites. Just wandered if you hide any accessories as I gathered you worked on new builds from previous post.