Kitchen Socket Circuits??

[Paul505]

Thoughts please... probably heard it all before ;-)
At some point I will be having a new kitchen fitted and I am going to be carrying out all the electrical works and any advice on the modern wiring methods of today would be appreciated.
I'm used to the old wiring methods, where it was about switching appliances below on/off from above the worktops. Fast forward and its all about hiding stuff away with hardly anything on show. The kitchen fitters love it, my electrical friends love it who are actively installing new kitchens and so does the wife
Below is what I've been toying with in my thoughts.....

Option 1: Dedicated RFC for appliances on a grid switch setup mounted on the back of a wall unit switching un-switched s/s/o mounted behind the appliances from each named d/p grid switch. General sockets above worktop to keep on existing house RFC. Cooker Switch to be mounted next to grid setup. Fridge/Freezer possibly on its own dedicated circuit and combo/microwave on another dedicated within the grid setup. (Everything in one place)

Option 2: Dedicated kitchen RFC only with sockets for all appliances in adjacent cupboards with general sockets above the worktop on the same RFC. Every socket on the ring and no un-fused spurs. (Everything else the same as above regarding Fridge, micro/combo)

Option 3: Old School method.... in the past apparently.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Grid switching is good for some things but its ultimately down to you, its your kitchen so install what is most convenient and within your budget. Bear in mind that with your option 1 idea of having the fridge/freezer on a separate circuit , then i assume this would be a new one? in which case it then becomes notifiable as a new circuit where as if you keep everything running from an existing ring then it stays as minor works. whether you are competent enough to test and sign off your own minor certificate only you know?

 

[kingeri]

I wouldn't put a grid switch on a ring unless it's in the centre of the ring.

 

[Paul505]

100% with you on that Kingeri.... that's why I stated dedicated RFC for that. What's your preferred method?

 

[westward10]

I don't like these grid switch systems on ring finals full stop. I would opt for a series of radials.

 

[Paul505]

Yes Gavin, I understand exactly what you are saying. I am competent but due to the fact I'm not Part P registered as I don't require this in my line of work.
I will be getting a third party to sign off my works as a new consumer unit will also be fitted.

 

[Dave OCD]

I'd go for option 2 , keep it nice and simple !

 

[Des 56]

Fast forward and its all about hiding stuff away with hardly anything on show. The kitchen fitters love it, my electrical friends love it who are actively installing new kitchens and so does the wife

I have this really old fashioned idea that electrical controls should be conveniently sited for what they serve

Socket outlets sited so that chords and arms don't become mangled using these items

Cooker switches not mounted behind the Weetabix should a fast isolation be needed

The number of outlets sufficient and sited so that appliances are not serving multiple loads and requiring the person to plug and unplug needlessly

I believe a Kitchen is a "Workstation" where preparation and the serving of food is the primary function

I suppose these old fashioned ideas may have given way to a room that presents a kindly appearance rather functionality

 

[Paul505]

I don't like these grid switch systems on ring finals full stop. I would opt for a series of radials.

Few extra circuits in the fuse board then

 

[Strima]

Decent size radial, say 32 amp fed in either 4 or 6mm depending on reference method to a grid switch for some appliances. Working on the principle you won't have the dishwasher, washing machine and tumble drier on at exactly the same time.

Rest of the sockets on an RFC or radials as required.

I see no real need for dedicated circuits for fridge/freezers etc in domestic, if they keep on tripping the RCD they normally need replacing anyway and it's a good indication when the kettle won't boil that something is wrong.

TBH all the sockets in my house are run off one RFC upstairs with cable drops to the ground floor and never had any issues. However the kitchen is being ripped out next year and I will be designing the kitchen power to be a little better than the existing 70's design.

 

[Paul505]

Fast forward and its all about hiding stuff away with hardly anything on show. The kitchen fitters love it, my electrical friends love it who are actively installing new kitchens and so does the wife

I have this really old fashioned idea that electrical controls should be conveniently sited for what they serve

Socket outlets sited so that chords and arms don't become mangled using these items

Cooker switches not mounted behind the Weetabix should a fast isolation be needed

The number of outlets sufficient and sited so that appliances are not serving multiple loads and requiring the person to plug and unplug needlessly

I believe a Kitchen is a "Workstation" where preparation and the serving of food is the primary function

I suppose these old fashioned ideas may have given way to a room that presents a kindly appearance rather functionality

I know... peer pressure comes to mind!
Option 1 appears to be a widely used method on lots of new builds these days.

 

[telectrix]

agree with des. a kitchen is there to prepare and cook food. end of. therefore all electrical works should reflect this and make the kitchen fit for purpose. any customer that does not want to see accessories on show should bin the oven and use mcdonalds/burger king/local pizza takeaway.

 

[Paul505]

I'd go for option 2 , keep it nice and simple !

agree with des. a kitchen is there to prepare and cook food. end of. therefore all electrical works should reflect this and make the kitchen fit for purpose. any customer that does not want to see accessories on show should bin the oven and use mcdonalds/burger king/local pizza takeaway.

agree with des. a kitchen is there to prepare and cook food. end of. therefore all electrical works should reflect this and make the kitchen fit for purpose. any customer that does not want to see accessories on show should bin the oven and use mcdonalds/burger king/local pizza takeaway.

I take it yourself and Des56 like the accessories on show..... option 1 & 2 out of the question on your kitchen installs then?
Would your preferred preference be 6 way grid on show or 6 x d/p switches or switched fused spurs scattered around above worktop controlling appliances?

 

[Paul505]

I keep replying to multiple quotes... if your thinking what the hell is he up to
Haven't been on here for a few years now! doh

 

[123]

The are an awful lot more options than what you have listed.

Where is the fuseboard in this installation?

 

[Dave OCD]

I take it yourself and Des56 like the accessories on show..... option 1 & 2 out of the question on your kitchen installs then?
Would your preferred preference be 6 way grid on show or 6 x d/p switches or switched fused spurs scattered around above worktop controlling appliances?

Paul I said 'Option 2' - normal use sockets above worktops and surface mounted appliance sockets in adjacent base units, so no clutter of switched fused spurs or expensive grid assemblies .

 

[Paul505]

Fast forward and its all about hiding stuff away with hardly anything on show. The kitchen fitters love it, my electrical friends love it who are actively installing new kitchens and so does the wife

I have this really old fashioned idea that electrical controls should be conveniently sited for what they serve

Socket outlets sited so that chords and arms don't become mangled using these items

Cooker switches not mounted behind the Weetabix should a fast isolation be needed

The number of outlets sufficient and sited so that appliances are not serving multiple loads and requiring the person to plug and unplug needlessly

I believe a Kitchen is a "Workstation" where preparation and the serving of food is the primary function

I suppose these old fashioned ideas may have given way to a room that presents a kindly appearance rather functionality

The are an awful lot more options than what you have listed.

Where is the fuseboard in this installation?

The are an awful lot more options than what you have listed.

Where is the fuseboard in this installation?

Paul I said 'Option 2' - normal use sockets above worktops and surface mounted appliance sockets in adjacent base units, so no clutter of switched fused spurs or expensive grid assemblies .

Paul I said 'Option 2' - normal use sockets above worktops and surface mounted appliance sockets in adjacent base units, so no clutter of switched fused spurs or expensive grid assemblies .

Thanks Dave OCD...

 

[Paul505]

The are an awful lot more options than what you have listed.

Where is the fuseboard in this installation?

Against the ceiling in the downstairs toilet, a few metres from the kitchen.
Lets hear your preferred method?

 

[Paul505]

Thanks Dave OCD...

Paul I said 'Option 2' - normal use sockets above worktops and surface mounted appliance sockets in adjacent base units, so no clutter of switched fused spurs or expensive grid assemblies .

I'm flush at the moment!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Decent size radial, say 32 amp fed in either 4 or 6mm depending on reference method to a grid switch for some appliances. Working on the principle you won't have the dishwasher, washing machine and tumble drier on at exactly the same time.

Rest of the sockets on an RFC or radials as required.

I see no real need for dedicated circuits for fridge/freezers etc in domestic, if they keep on tripping the RCD they normally need replacing anyway and it's a good indication when the kettle won't boil that something is wrong.

TBH all the sockets in my house are run off one RFC upstairs with cable drops to the ground floor and never had any issues. However the kitchen is being ripped out next year and I will be designing the kitchen power to be a little better than the existing 70's design.

Might be a squeeze getting 6.0mm cables in a grid system

 

[Octopus]

What ever you decide just don't have the plugs for the appliances behind the appliances ....

 

[telectrix]

lost count of the number of burnt out grid switches i've seen. some just defunct, some bridged out due to failure. only ever fitted 1 4 gang grid for kitchen appliances. bit me in the arse when the freezer switch failed and customer hit me with a £300 bill for ruined food. never again on my watch.

 

[123]

What ever you decide just don't have the plugs for the appliances behind the appliances ....

Never a socket behind an integrated appliance, but a trailing socket on the other hand is fine. Gives a lot of flexibility in the installation as well.

 

[Paul505]

lost count of the number of burnt out grid switches i've seen. some just defunct, some bridged out due to failure. only ever fitted 1 4 gang grid for kitchen appliances. bit me in the arse when the freezer switch failed and customer hit me with a £300 bill for ruined food. never again on my watch.

Thanks for the reply.... all the grid set ups seem to be the norm in new builds these days. Plenty of call outs then if that's a common occurrence then!

 

[Paul505]

Never a socket behind an integrated appliance, but a trailing socket on the other hand is fine. Gives a lot of flexibility in the installation as well.

Not sure about that one... why without sounding rude?
I've heard of quick flow connectors on appliances that have had there plugs cut off? A bit like the flex outlet method of old which I never liked.

 

[Paul505]

Not sure about that one... why without sounding rude?
I've heard of quick flow connectors on appliances that have had there plugs cut off? A bit like the flex outlet method of old which I never liked.

Just to add if there's a problem with an appliance... it has to come out regardless of where the plug in point is anyway.

 

[Ian1981]

Use grids all the time never had a problem with them Either 4 gang 3 or 2.
They are a particular favourite of most of the house builders and are specified on the drawings for the kitchen layout.
Not sure why it’s a problem putting a socket behind an appliance either as is the norm with new builds our company carry out and I’m unaware of any problems while doing this.
If the appliances are tight tho then the appliance fitter will advise and we fit an a unswitched fused spur with flex outlet but always behind the appliance which is controlled by a DP switch in a grid set up.

 

[Octopus]

Just to add if there's a problem with an appliance... it has to come out regardless of where the plug in point is anyway.

I have lost count how many times a tripping rcd has been traced to an appliance with the plug in an inaccessible position

 

[Paul505]

Use grids all the time never had a problem with them Either 4 gang 3 or 2.
They are a particular favourite of most of the house builders and are specified on the drawings for the kitchen layout.
Not sure why it’s a problem putting a socket behind an appliance either as is the norm with new builds our company carry out and I’m unaware of any problems while doing this.
If the appliances are tight tho then the appliance fitter will advise and we fit an a unswitched fused spur with flex outlet but always behind the appliance which is controlled by a DP switch in a grid set up.

Do you have the grid on show?

 

[123]

Against the ceiling in the downstairs toilet, a few metres from the kitchen.
Lets hear your preferred method?

A little far away

I have no preferred method, every kitchen is different.

From Pull Up Sockets in the worktop, to pull down sockets hidden in the wall units. Isolators in a Larder unit for appliances to some grid switching, or a sub DB for appliances. Also have the likes of a bank of switches contolling contactors, but that can get expensive.