EICR rules

[Newbie101]

Hi,

My landlord conducted an EICR test 6 weeks ago. The electrician said within 40 minutes that it was a fail and he would write a report. I believe as a tenant I'm owed the report within 28 days to explain the outcome of the test and to explain what remedial work is required.

I complained that I haven't received the report and the next day I get a call from his electrician saying he wants to set up a time to fix the electricity. Which will enable him to provide a certificate. From my perspective this is fraud - ultimately they'll have a glowing report with no history of the problems that existed and they are required to fix.

The electrician's argument now is that they didn't do a full test to make a 'certificate'. The condition was so bad that there was no need to continue with the test because it would not pass.

Am I write in thinking they must provide this report, even if they didn't complete 'all' the tests?

Thank you so much for your advice.

 

[SJD]

It seems increasingly common for an 'electrician' to decide an installation will fail and not bother to complete all the tests. Saves them time, though doesn't seem to stop them invoicing the full amount for the EICR. Unless that is what is agreed with the landlord, they should complete the EICR so all the issues are listed.

A tenant should be provided with a report within 28 days, but if one is not completed, obviously you can't have it! My guess is the landlord has no real idea of the process and if the electrician spins a story about not needing to complete the EICR, they often accept it.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

It seems increasingly common for an 'electrician' to decide an installation will fail and not bother to complete all the tests. Saves them time, though doesn't seem to stop them invoicing the full amount for the EICR. Unless that is what is agreed with the landlord, they should complete the EICR so all the issues are listed.

A tenant should be provided with a report within 28 days, but if one is not completed, obviously you can't have it! My guess is the landlord has no real idea of the process and if the electrician spins a story about not needing to complete the EICR, they often accept it.

Expanding on this, I believe some councils require a copy of any unsatisfactory landlord EICRs, plus certs to show that the work needed to bring it up to scratch has been completed. So more paperwork for the landlord as well as the electrician.

@Newbie101 , to me, it seems reasonable to identify what work is needed, then issue the satisfactory report after it has been completed. Less paperwork, and the same result ultimately. It would only be fraud if a satisfactory report was issued where immediately or potentially dangerous conditions still existed.

You should indeed have received a copy of the report within 28 days, and it should have been done by 1st april anyway. However, covid has put a big old spanner in the works and many landlords are behind with this. I haven't received the report for the flat i live in yet either.

 

[Newbie101]

It seems increasingly common for an 'electrician' to decide an installation will fail and not bother to complete all the tests. Saves them time, though doesn't seem to stop them invoicing the full amount for the EICR. Unless that is what is agreed with the landlord, they should complete the EICR so all the issues are listed.

A tenant should be provided with a report within 28 days, but if one is not completed, obviously you can't have it! My guess is the landlord has no real idea of the process and if the electrician spins a story about not needing to complete the EICR, they often accept it.

My landlord knows exactly what he's doing. He is a career landlord with dozens if not hundreds of tenancies. He seems to choose to do nothing by the book. But let's not go into that!

What you've said is useful, SJD. The electrician at the time said he wouldn't carry out any more of the test because he wouldn't be paid for his time. What I now understand from you is, because he already determined it would fail he didn't see it necessary to finding 'more' failures elsewhere. but by abandoning the test at this point, shouldn't he still submit a report with his findings?

 

[Newbie101]

Expanding on this, I believe some councils require a copy of any unsatisfactory landlord EICRs, plus certs to show that the work needed to bring it up to scratch has been completed. So more paperwork for the landlord as well as the electrician.

@Newbie101 , to me, it seems reasonable to identify what work is needed, then issue the satisfactory report after it has been completed. Less paperwork, and the same result ultimately. It would only be fraud if a satisfactory report was issued where immediately or potentially dangerous conditions still existed.

You should indeed have received a copy of the report within 28 days, and it should have been done by 1st april anyway. However, covid has put a big old spanner in the works and many landlords are behind with this. I haven't received the report for the flat i live in yet either.

Without a report it's impossible to know whether or not the problems are C1 or C2. That's the very point of having an assessment and a report.

The 1st April deadline isn't an issue as 'I' postponed it being done then for COVID reasons, which is in the rules as it were.

You haven't received yours yet? Do you have a rogue landlord (this is the tip of the iceberg with mine) are they just lazy? Surely if the electrician has conducted the test, the report is there to be sent. The backlog relating to COVID would be the tests themselves, not the reports, surely.

 

[littlespark]

This brings up a few questions.

If the installation was "so bad" that the electrician didn't need to complete an EICR, then how was it good enough to allow the property to be let?

"So bad" also suggests that the outcomes were C1 (dangerous) or C2 (potentially dangerous) If C1, then the offending circuits should have been isolated there and then.

A C3 (improvement recommended) shouldn't have stopped him completing the report.


The other issue being the electrician thinking he wouldn't get paid for spending the time doing the job he was contracted to do... ie, complete an EICR on the property.

 

[timhoward]

Without a report it's impossible to know whether or not the problems are C1 or C2. That's the very point of having an assessment and a report.

Any half-decent sparks would do their utmost not to leave a C1 in any case, and both C1's and C2's need fixing.
This method of working is not uncommon and in some circumstances I've been known to do it, e.g. when the client says "just fix anything you find". It would be a waste of my time and his money to document every fault, then fix it then put in writing that everything is fixed. Fixing the issues then completing a full EICR report with a full schedule of inspection and tests, and in some cases (where required) also issuing an installation certificate achieves the same end result.

It has the added perk of a piece of paper saying Satisfactory on it, which a lot of letting agents and tenants seem to expect. (the normal process doesn't achieve this, you just get an unsatisfactory report and written evidence of associated remedial work)

At the end of the day, an electrician is doing necessary work and putting his name and number to a report saying a property has a satisfactory and safe electrical installation.
I'm not following where you think the issue is.

 

[loz2754]

If an EICR has not been fully completed, how does the company know what C2 or C1 items need rectifying, and how much to quote to put them right?

Sounds well dodgy to me.

 

[Newbie101]

Any half-decent sparks would do their utmost not to leave a C1 in any case, and both C1's and C2's need fixing.
This method of working is not uncommon and in some circumstances I've been known to do it, e.g. when the client says "just fix anything you find". It would be a waste of my time and his money to document every fault, then fix it then put in writing that everything is fixed. Fixing the issues then completing a full EICR report with a full schedule of inspection and tests, and in some cases (where required) also issuing an installation certificate achieves the same end result.

It has the added perk of a piece of paper saying Satisfactory on it, which a lot of letting agents and tenants seem to expect. (the normal process doesn't achieve this, you just get an unsatisfactory report and written evidence of associated remedial work)

At the end of the day, an electrician is doing necessary work and putting his name and number to a report saying a property has a satisfactory and safe electrical installation.
I'm not following where you think the issue is.

By your method someone could come an inspect, decide it would fail but not report it officially, so there's no record of that. Then come and fix everything and provide a glowing certificate. This paints a picture of the dwelling always being safe etc when that may not have been the case. Failing to have a record of it means the tenant is left without potentially vital evidence to show that a landlord has shirked legal responsibilities of having a safe dwelling.

 

[Newbie101]

Any half-decent sparks would do their utmost not to leave a C1 in any case, and both C1's and C2's need fixing.
This method of working is not uncommon and in some circumstances I've been known to do it, e.g. when the client says "just fix anything you find". It would be a waste of my time and his money to document every fault, then fix it then put in writing that everything is fixed. Fixing the issues then completing a full EICR report with a full schedule of inspection and tests, and in some cases (where required) also issuing an installation certificate achieves the same end result.

It has the added perk of a piece of paper saying Satisfactory on it, which a lot of letting agents and tenants seem to expect. (the normal process doesn't achieve this, you just get an unsatisfactory report and written evidence of associated remedial work)

At the end of the day, an electrician is doing necessary work and putting his name and number to a report saying a property has a satisfactory and safe electrical installation.
I'm not following where you think the issue is.

The electricity in my property has been terrible for the six years I've lived there. It trips all the time, of about 12 fuses, any four could go off without reason. It just went off an hour ago and I was just reading. No appliances running other than the fridge and other household gadgets in standby or off. The person conducting the eventually abandoned test determined that the meter and fuse box which are in the false ceiling are not in the correct place. Which is obvious - no disabled person could ever access them, and the only way I can get a meter reading is by standing on a chair, removing a panel in the ceiling, pushing my arm in the ceiling as far as I can reach and taking a flash photo on my phone of the meter!

I imagine that's only a C3. But without a report, who knows!

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Without a report it's impossible to know whether or not the problems are C1 or C2. That's the very point of having an assessment and a report.

The 1st April deadline isn't an issue as 'I' postponed it being done then for COVID reasons, which is in the rules as it were.

You haven't received yours yet? Do you have a rogue landlord (this is the tip of the iceberg with mine) are they just lazy? Surely if the electrician has conducted the test, the report is there to be sent. The backlog relating to COVID would be the tests themselves, not the reports, surely.

I rent via an agency. They're a bit lame, which is probably why the inspection has only just been carried out, but TBH so long as they stay out of my hair I couldn't care less. I already know what all the C2s are anyway.

By your method someone could come an inspect, decide it would fail but not report it officially, so there's no record of that. Then come and fix everything and provide a glowing certificate. This paints a picture of the dwelling always being safe etc when that may not have been the case. Failing to have a record of it means the tenant is left without potentially vital evidence to show that a landlord has shirked legal responsibilities of having a safe dwelling.

Ah, right. I see where you're coming from now. Here is the legislation and guidance for landlords:

The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020

These Regulations impose duties on private landlords of residential premises in England in respect of electrical safety standards. The duties do not apply to landlords of social housing. The Regulations require local housing authorities to enforce the duties, and include a power to arrange...

www.legislation.gov.uk

Guide for landlords: electrical safety standards in the private rented sector

www.gov.uk

Your landlord has been in breach of his/her responsibilities, but from what you've described, I doubt you'll ever see a report detailing the problems as they stand, unless you commission your own report. Which is gonna cost you. You can go to the council and make a complaint, they should do something about it.

I may be wrong, but I get the feeling you're more interested in receiving the unsatisfactory report than you are in getting the problems fixed. Do you mind if I ask why?

 

[loz2754]

I rent via an agency. They're a bit lame, which is probably why the inspection has only just been carried out, but TBH so long as they stay out of my hair I couldn't care less. I already know what all the C2s are anyway.


Ah, right. I see where you're coming from now. Here is the legislation and guidance for landlords:

The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020

These Regulations impose duties on private landlords of residential premises in England in respect of electrical safety standards. The duties do not apply to landlords of social housing. The Regulations require local housing authorities to enforce the duties, and include a power to arrange...

www.legislation.gov.uk

Guide for landlords: electrical safety standards in the private rented sector

www.gov.uk

Your landlord has been in breach of his/her responsibilities, but from what you've described, I doubt you'll ever see a report detailing the problems as they stand, unless you commission your own report. Which is gonna cost you. You can go to the council and make a complaint, they should do something about it.

I may be wrong, but I get the feeling you're more interested in receiving the unsatisfactory report than you are in getting the problems fixed. Do you mind if I ask why?

Maybe a sense of justice?
There are far too many rogue couldn't care less landlords out there. This new legislation is aimed at bringing them into the light.

 

[DPG]

Maybe a sense of justice?
There are far too many rogue couldn't care less landlords out there. This new legislation is aimed at bringing them into the light.

Plenty of rogue tennants also.

 

[loz2754]

Plenty of rogue tennants also.

True.
And an added reason for a thorough and complete EICR on every tenancy.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Maybe a sense of justice?
There are far too many rogue couldn't care less landlords out there. This new legislation is aimed at bringing them into the light.

That's fair enough. I'm not a big fan of landlords. Housing is an essential, not a luxury, and IMO it's wrong that it should be turned into an easy investment for those who couldn't care less.

 

[DefyG]

Difficult from the sparks pov as some LL’s we work for (regular clients, not just for eicr’s) say ‘do what needs doing’ (obviously to get a satisfactory report), whilst (in practice) we still carry out a full eicr, it never gets issued until any non compliance’s are corrected first, and then as a satisfactory report!

 

[timhoward]

By your method someone could come an inspect, decide it would fail but not report it officially, so there's no record of that. Then come and fix everything and provide a glowing certificate.

Part of me wants to say "but you now have a safe place to live so is that so terrible?".
When I made my earlier comments I wasn't aware of how bad the situation is for you and I'm sorry about that. If your landlord is not one of the better ones, I can agree that this method or working might not work to your benefit. However this all transpires I do hope it will be safe and certified asap for you.

The thing is, the sparks is always working for someone, usually the landlord.
If it were obvious to me within 40 minutes that a property needs a new consumer unit and at least partial rewire then I would feel obliged to ask the person paying what they wanted to do:
-A completed EICR?
-A completed EICR plus a written quote for remedials?
-An option to get it all sorted out asap and then certify as needed.

It should be remembered that once an EICR is done, there is a 28 day limit to get the remedial work done, and in some circumstances this isn't actually possible e.g. if a property needs a new consumer unit and rewire and the diary is full. It's therefore the landlords call on how to proceed as they are the one obligated to hold an EICR document by some means. They are free to get the report and try and find another sparks who can do it in time if they want.
My point is that the process isn't always ideal and doesn't always occur in a textbook linear way, but shouldn't the end result be the focus really?
If whoever is "fixing up the electrics" is going to put their name to an EICR and EIC saying it's safe, then I'd have thought that would be a good outcome.

 

[MrPupsi]

The attending electrician never issued the report, so there is nothing for you to receive. They’re not obliged to finish and submit it.
Had he finished it and submitted it, then you’d legally be allowed a copy.

Whilst a landlords duty is to provide safe and habitable accommodation, these inspections weren’t made compulsory until April 1st just gone.
Only a small amount of time has elapsed from when the landlord was legally obliged to sort this and due to Covid, that’s all up in the air at the moment.
Even now I’m still carrying out EICRs for estate agents.

From the sounds of things, it sounds like you’re fishing for issues, so if that’s the case, I’d get an EICR completed at your own cost.
And from the work I’ve seen recently, it might be worth doing one after as well!

 

[Dustydazzler]

I would probably get an eicr done during the work as well

 

[DefyG]

Even now I’m still carrying out EICRs

and remedial works way beyond the 28 days suggested!

 

[Zerax]

That's fair enough. I'm not a big fan of landlords. Housing is an essential, not a luxury, and IMO it's wrong that it should be turned into an easy investment for those who couldn't care less.

If it's such an easy investment... it's a free county... can't you invest in one yourself ?

 

[Zerax]

The electricity in my property has been terrible for the six years I've lived there.

One of the great things about renting rather than owning your own home... is that it's relatively easy and cheap to move. So if you don't get on with the neighbours, or don't like the wallpaper, or get a job many miles away or indeed have dodgy electrics... within a month or so you could be out of there and living somewhere that better suits your requirements.

 

[DPG]

That's fair enough. I'm not a big fan of landlords. Housing is an essential, not a luxury, and IMO it's wrong that it should be turned into an easy investment for those who couldn't care less.

Easy investment? I've spent around £4k this year on a boiler, garage roof and some other stuff. The tennants would never have been able to afford that if they owned the house.

It has regular gas/electric checks and is kept in good order.

And have you seen the rights that tennants have these days?

I know there are bad landlords, but then there are plenty of bad tennants too. Same with anything, even electricians let's face it.

 

[nicebutdim]

I know there are bad landlords, but then there are plenty of bad tennants too. Same with anything, even electricians let's face it.

I think it's easy to view situations throught the lens of one's own experience, but much more difficult to consider situations outside of that experience. We read a lot about landlords and can often slip into the sort of lazy thinking that paints them all as greedy people who hoard piles of money, while expecting their tenants to live in squalor.

Plenty of people become accidental landlords through various circumstances - perhaps an inherited property or someone who lets their home out, while renting elsewhere themselves due to work commitments.

 

[Newbie101]

I may be wrong, but I get the feeling you're more interested in receiving the unsatisfactory report than you are in getting the problems fixed. Do you mind if I ask why?

Because without the evidence from the report - which I suspect would show that the dwelling is in a state that should never have been rented in the first instance - I have no way to prove it.

I'm very interested in getting the problems fixed too. One follows the other.

 

[Newbie101]

The attending electrician never issued the report, so there is nothing for you to receive. They’re not obliged to finish and submit it.
Had he finished it and submitted it, then you’d legally be allowed a copy.

Whilst a landlords duty is to provide safe and habitable accommodation, these inspections weren’t made compulsory until April 1st just gone.
Only a small amount of time has elapsed from when the landlord was legally obliged to sort this and due to Covid, that’s all up in the air at the moment.
Even now I’m still carrying out EICRs for estate agents.

From the sounds of things, it sounds like you’re fishing for issues, so if that’s the case, I’d get an EICR completed at your own cost.
And from the work I’ve seen recently, it might be worth doing one after as well!

If you knew what I've been put through by this landlord over six years of doing nothing by the book, you would know I'm not fishing for problems. What I'm doing is actively seeking legally required documents to use as evidence against him (if relevant). So many illegal things that landlords do are unprovable. This is on that would be provable.

 

[Newbie101]

One of the great things about renting rather than owning your own home... is that it's relatively easy and cheap to move. So if you don't get on with the neighbours, or don't like the wallpaper, or get a job many miles away or indeed have dodgy electrics... within a month or so you could be out of there and living somewhere that better suits your requirements.

There are many reasons that that is not the case for many.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

If it's such an easy investment... it's a free county... can't you invest in one yourself ?

Easy investment? I've spent around £4k this year on a boiler, garage roof and some other stuff. The tennants would never have been able to afford that if they owned the house.

It has regular gas/electric checks and is kept in good order.

And have you seen the rights that tennants have these days?

I know there are bad landlords, but then there are plenty of bad tennants too. Same with anything, even electricians let's face it.

Sigh. The comment wasn't me sulking because I don't own a house, it was a comment on the state of housing in this country.

If you HAVE the money, property is one of the best investments you can make. Even if you only break even on the rent each year, at the end of the mortgage period you still have a house or whatever to sell. The risk is minimal - it almost never fails, unlike other investments. Hand it over to a letting agent, and it truly is an easy investment.

If you DON'T have the money, then you pay for someone else's investment. Even though the banks have decided that you can't afford a mortgage, you pay more than the mortgage would cost each month, because you have to, because the alternative is living on the streets. So the guy who already has the money gets wealthier at your expense.

People know this, that's why there are so many landlords buying up so many properties as investments. Too many. You don't even have to be a british citizen to do it. Someone half a world away can buy up here and rent out, and get a fat wallet at the expense of the poor. How wrong is that? It buoys up the house prices, putting them even further out of reach for those that can't afford them.

 

[Newbie101]

Sigh. The comment wasn't me sulking because I don't own a house, it was a comment on the state of housing in this country.

If you HAVE the money, property is one of the best investments you can make. Even if you only break even on the rent each year, at the end of the mortgage period you still have a house or whatever to sell. The risk is minimal - it almost never fails, unlike other investments. Hand it over to a letting agent, and it truly is an easy investment.

If you DON'T have the money, then you pay for someone else's investment. Even though the banks have decided that you can't afford a mortgage, you pay more than the mortgage would cost each month, because you have to, because the alternative is living on the streets. So the guy who already has the money gets wealthier at your expense.

People know this, that's why there are so many landlords buying up so many properties as investments. Too many. You don't even have to be a british citizen to do it. Someone half a world away can buy up here and rent out, and get a fat wallet at the expense of the poor. How wrong is that? It buoys up the house prices, putting them even further out of reach for those that can't afford them.

Come one guys, we're getting a little off topic here. Suffice to say my landlord is one of the largest property owners in the London and he and his colleagues have form....

I'm just trying my best to not let this slide and add it to the list of seriously negligent things he continues to do. Thanks for all your advice so far,

 

[DPG]

Come one guys, we're getting a little off topic here. Suffice to say my landlord is one of the largest property owners in the London and he and his colleagues have form....

I'm just trying my best to not let this slide and add it to the list of seriously negligent things he continues to do. Thanks for all your advice so far,

Hopefully once the electrical work is done and you have a satisfactory EICR then this will be one less thing to worry about.

 

[loz2754]

Sigh. The comment wasn't me sulking because I don't own a house, it was a comment on the state of housing in this country.

If you HAVE the money, property is one of the best investments you can make. Even if you only break even on the rent each year, at the end of the mortgage period you still have a house or whatever to sell. The risk is minimal - it almost never fails, unlike other investments. Hand it over to a letting agent, and it truly is an easy investment.

If you DON'T have the money, then you pay for someone else's investment. Even though the banks have decided that you can't afford a mortgage, you pay more than the mortgage would cost each month, because you have to, because the alternative is living on the streets. So the guy who already has the money gets wealthier at your expense.

People know this, that's why there are so many landlords buying up so many properties as investments. Too many. You don't even have to be a british citizen to do it. Someone half a world away can buy up here and rent out, and get a fat wallet at the expense of the poor. How wrong is that? It buoys up the house prices, putting them even further out of reach for those that can't afford them.

Word

 

[Newbie101]

Hopefully once the electrical work is done and you have a satisfactory EICR then this will be one less thing to worry about.

I hope so. The remedial work will be quite stressful though too, I imagine. Moving a meter and fusebox won't be easy, or without mess. And that's the only part I know that is required...

I'm a full-time carer for a terminally ill friend, so things are stressful enough without a landlord trying to take the p*** at every opportunity!