three phase transformer wiring

[FattyJr]

Hello out there.

This is a werid one I have never heard off before.

Just purchased a pair of 5 ton column lifts so I can work on my pick up. Anyway, i purchased the lifts and was told they was three phase ie 415v.

lifts were delivered and they had a 16a 5 pin red plug, no problem i thought. Plugged it in and got a BANG. Breaker tripped in the breaker box and on lift. Hummm

disconnected everything and opened the control box and found a sticker stating 110v three phase. Yea, 110v three phase. I have L1, L2 and L3 in the box with no netural.

Never heard of it so tried a google search and still got nothing on how or why.

So to attack the problem. I gotta buy/build a three phase transformer to go from 240v three phase to 110v three phase. I have read numerous site on wiring up three separate 240v to 110v in a delta style set up & also wiring an "open delta" setup that uses two single phase transformers.

Any ideas on how to do this? I have actually considered ripping out the wiring and redoing in proper three phase, but means a total rewire which I don't fancy at the moment.

Let me know, cheers john

 

[oxocube]

Are you sure its not got a 110volt control system? I've never seen or heard of 110v 3ph.

 

[malcolmsanford]

You won't have in the UK 3 phase 230/240v you will have 3 phase 400/415v and single phase 230/240volt.

Chances are these column lifts are either american or Asian and will be for a 220/208v 3 pahse 127/110v single phase system.

 

[Knobhead]

What is the voltage and current on the motor rating plate?
Is there a transformer in the control panel?
110V 3Ph is quite common. You will be better off with a 415/110V 3Ph transformer rather than trying to cobble together 3 separate units, you can run in to all kinds of problems with phase sequencing.

 

[FattyJr]

to answer the questions.

Yes the control panel is 110v 3 ph Everything in the panel states 110v 3 ph.

the motors on either column are marked 110v 3ph

The lifts are swiss as far as I can gather and have been used in the UK for a number of years as they were regularly serviced by a company called gemco.

As for my 3 phase supply, I know we call the 3 phase system 415v, but per phase it's 240v. Don't want to get into that argument about phasing.

What I can do is take a few pics and post them here for all to view

 

[oxocube]

regularly serviced by a company called gemco.

I would give gemco a ring.

 

[oxocube]

110V 3Ph is quite common.

Yeah, about as common as rocking horse s***.

 

[Knobhead]

Yeah, about as common as rocking horse s***.

I take it you’ve never worked in heavy engineering or construction then? It’s very common!

 

[FattyJr]

Considering wiring like this

Taken from Three-phase transformer circuits : POLYPHASE AC CIRCUITS

for delta to delta wiring

for Wye to Delta wiring which I am leaning towards

 

[Knobhead]

If you really want to go down the road of three separate transformers you’ll need 415V / 66V transformers connected as shown.

View attachment 7753

 

[Knobhead]

Using a delta connection for the 110V gives no protection for earth faults. Not recommended!

A ready made unit will be cheaper

 

[alex trician]

I reckon do as Tony says and get a 415/110v3 phase transformer. I have installed them in factories.

 

[Des 56]

Buy a genny with a 3 ph 110 volt output,simples

 

[FattyJr]

Just thought I would post this pic of one of the motors. I have been thinking about what tony has said and looking into some. I have spoken to some firms about a custom transformer and to be honest, they haven't got a clue what size transformer to make/supply. I am working on the plug on the unit was a 16a 3 phase plug so that would make it 4A a phase. I did a bit of a calculation and got 2.78 KVA total so if i get 3 x 1kva 415v to 66v. Another thing that springs to mind is would I need 415v OR 240V transformers since you only get 415v when you combine two phases, but 240v when you use one phase.

I maybe missing something or just had a brain fart.

Your thoughts please.

 

[mogga]

GIVE Gemco a ring before you do yourself some damage

 

[FattyJr]

GIVE Gemco a ring before you do yourself some damage

Rang Gemco and they are a typical big british company. As in NOT INTERESTED unless you have a big chequebook and want new equipment. They don't want to discuss equipment that they used to service even tho I asked them to service them when I have the electrical side sorted out. Might as well smash the original motors off and control circuits, then run a nice and simple two new individual motors and make up a new control box.

That's why I prefer to deal with american companies. Will ALWAYS try and help you out even if they don't sell you something

 

[mogga]

Maybe guy who sold you the set up hasnt given you the full set up ie Transformers control box OR he may have been having the same problem as you and has sold it to another mug >>You ( no offence BTW just banter)

 

[FattyJr]

Was commercial clearance and sold in lot numbers so you buy lot number XX as seen

Tis a bit of a bind, but I can afford to spend a little on the lifts because didn't pay a lot for them and they are ideal for what I need

 

[Knobhead]

A 4KVA 415/110V 3Ph transformer will give a bit of headroom for starting. The actual load is a tad over 2KVA but you need that bit extra for stating. That’s assuming both motors run together.

 

[FattyJr]

A 4KVA 415/110V 3Ph transformer will give a bit of headroom for starting. The actual load is a tad over 2KVA but you need that bit extra for stating. That’s assuming both motors run together.

You are correct tony. take a look at this pic. You can use these lifts in pairs, fours, sixes or eights. The power runs into one main control box then there is a link cable between each column. I have an early set where the spindles are drove by a chain and the motor hangs out the back inline with the column.

Still debating if I need 415v transformers or 230v transformers. can't get head straight due to hospital runs and 6 border collie pups biting my ankles