Trunking vs tray

[wade88]

Hi lads/ladies

After a recent post of mine, the lack of tray or trunking was highlighted on a bit of my work, i've taken this criticism fully on board and have been exploring in much greater detail the pros and cons of both. I like the look of tray, it's neat and looks a really professional job when it's up. But i also like the enclosed nature of trunking and think in certain situations, it looks the tidier alterantive especially as it can be painted to conceal it as well as offering greater impact protection if cables are installed in high traffic areas such as fork lift lanes or the numpties walk route back to the canteen.

What do you guys prefer to use for general cable installs and what are your preferences taking into account cost and speed of install. Not used tray, but am i right in thinking it needs to be riveted when making joins?

Tray seems to offer a nice future proof way of allowing cables to be added to it easily but strikes me as being a little more arduous to install. I'd love to see some of your installs guys so i can get a good idea of what a nice job looks like. I know people dont like to put their work on the forum so maybe just some jobs your working on or jobs you've noted in the past would be awesome.

I have another few circuits to get installed coming up soon, quite long runs too and am inclined currently to clip direct to the steel beams beneath the floor as they will be concealed by the hanging ceiling below, but, again you guys might consider that a mucky job and would have done it differently.

Any input on industrial installs here would be really handy for me.

Cheers guys,

Ben

 

[johnboy6083]

Trunking is good for places where a high degree of ingress protection is not required, as its not easy to seal. It's good for high traffic routes, and is easy to add circuits to.

Tray is good in wet or damp environments, as the cables can be sealed individually. It's easy to add to, and is quicker than trunking to install.

Conduit is also good for wet or damp environments, and offers a very high degree of impact protection. Conduit requires more skill to install than tray or trunking, and is not as easy to add to.
all of the above systems when metallic, are suitable for use as CPC.

Ladder rack is used for heavy industrial systems or for large cables. It is heavy duty, and designed to take the high loadings. It is easy to add to, and a large range of fittings are available.

I haven't got any photos of recent jobs, but I'll see what I can post up.

 

[johnboy6083]

 

[telectrix]

bear in mind that lidded tray is available.

 

[rmc86uk]

I would say tray is quicker to install than trunking but then you spend time tying your cables to it. I suppose choosing the right containment method depends on the type of environment.

 

[telectrix]

and you can run singles in trunking, whereas you can't in tray.

 

[Bobster]

Don't forget they have different de-rating factors.

 

[Guest55]

if this is for more sy flex wade then use tray.
a very broad generalization but singles and T&E -trunking , everything else i shove onto tray.
tray is connected with couplings & 6mm nuts/ bolts
trunking is connected with joiners and 4mm machined panhead screws.
tray quicker and more flexible to install
trunking more sturdy and more cable protection
tray use indoor and outdoor
trunking use indoor only

the real skill is learning to fabricate all the bends , sets , T junctions, risers , doglegs etc. from straight pieces as buying all the sections ready made will add alot to the cost , but that takes practice , lots.
and get an angle grinder if your doing alot , it will knock off a good 30% of the labour time.
i

 

[johnboy6083]

I too highly reccomend a grinder for trunking and tray! I don't use a hacksaw unless there's no power, or I've only got one cut to make!
i reccomend a protractor rule to get the angles right.
For tray, a 13mm ring spanner (preferably ratchet spanner) is the right size for the square nuts on M6 gutter bolts, and is easier and quicker than fiddling about with a screwdriver.
Make sure a decent sized flathead driver is used. Crimp all bent ends on medium and heavy duty tray, they are prime reasons for cutting cable when pulling in.

 

[wade88]

Nice one lads. Lots to think about there.

 

[D Skelton]

and get an angle grinder if your doing alot , it will knock off a good 30% of the labour time.

I second that! Make sure it's a good quality one too with a top quality metal cutting disc 1mm width or less. The disc is key, a good one will cut through tray/trunking/galv conduit like a knife through butter and leave little to no swarf to file away, a crap one will chew your metal to bits and leave you with a crap finish thus making a file an absolute must.

 

[wade88]

Fortunately i have a monster Makita and boxes full of 1mm discs. I do a lot of metal work here, absolutely love to cut and weld things so i have no shortage of materials for destruction.

 

[Bobster]

And get a tin of galve spray, stop the cut ends from rusting.

 

[Guest55]

i love doing the metalwork stuff lol , i'd do containment for the rest of my career given the choice , hate all that faffing with wires & such ;-)
i have a dewalt cordless grinder so i can cut into existing tray already bolted to the ceiling , and quite frankly its the most useful gadget i've ever bought

 

[Robotstar5]

I find tray's good for runs along walls, and who the h3ll decided 11mm AF was a good size for the square nuts?

 

[D Skelton]

i love doing the metalwork stuff lol , i'd do containment for the rest of my career given the choice , hate all that faffing with wires & such ;-)
i have a dewalt cordless grinder so i can cut into existing tray already bolted to the ceiling , and quite frankly its the most useful gadget i've ever bought

How do you find the power compares to a corded? I have been umming and arring about a cordless for a while now but haven't had the opportunity to use one. The last one I used was some years ago and it was rubbish! I couldn't say what voltage or type the batteries were though.

 

[johnboy6083]

I'd agree, the only cordless grinders Ive used have had no power. Obviously it depends on what material and thickness your cutting.

 

[Guest55]

not as powerful as corded and eats batteries if you cut uni strut and anything else more than 2mm thick.
but the flexibility is stupendous , such as climb in roof space to rip out old metalwork with no power leads.

and i already had the 18v sds drill which shares the same batteries / charger so a relatively cheap add-on.

edit ; a lith ion battery version is now available but its big money if you need the full kit

double edit ; anything less than 18v 2.4Ah will be a waste of time.

 

[Bobster]

I use a 18v makita cordless grinder, batteries are interchangeable with my drill.

 

[Stuuk1]

Tray and trunking are totally different and are both there to cover their own purpose. It's not a case of one or the other.. Personally speaking of course.

As the BMS guy posted his pics, Part1-Type1 and Type 2 cable is better suited to tray whereas sometimes it makes sense to contain singles within trunking in a boiler room with a copex to the various valves etc.

You install the correct containment for the nature of the job.

I have always loved trunking and tray work and rarely used manufactured bends opting to make these myself unless asked for by the client, although never had to use the old style of forming an internal bend with the bar and slot (don't know the correct name).

When I next bring my laptop home from work ill see if I have some old BMS installs of mine to post up.

 

[Stuuk1]

I find tray's good for runs along walls, and who the h3ll decided 11mm AF was a good size for the square nuts?

Haha, I have always though that although I always threw them away and got hex nuts and a 10mm socket and adaptor for the drill.

They do however make a 10mm square nut now!

 

[i=p/u]

Don't you hate when someone has mounted trunking on side ??? We angle brackets are good for around edges . Don't do much metal work myself but have job conning up which il use trunking and pay another guy todo bends or il buy them....

 

[i=p/u]

I would get it eventually... But

 

[firespark]

A job I'm currently working on has utilized most forms of containment.
Tray work for SWA cable runs.
Galv Trunking for power and lighting.
Basket for other services (Fire, security BMS and Data)

If i get a chance ill snap a few pics when on site.

 

[i=p/u]

I've seen jobs where the stell pipe just cable tied to basket, is this the norm

 

[Knobhead]

I still can’t work just how you can compare trunking and tray? Each have there own job to do. You use whatever is best suited to the situation.

 

[i=p/u]

Someone said trunking inside , a lot of mod camps here have trunking running outside.. So must be allowed and after good few years it still looks in good nic..

 

[KAS1]

You can't beat a bit of iron fighting or metal munching.

 

[Dcf]

If I'm honest I prefer doing tray to trunking.only downside is it takes time to dress all the cables neatly.ie not crossed over with runs thought out. A throwback from micc days on my part. As a post I did a few weeks back I've just put 20 lengths of medium duty tray in a job and was quite surprised at how flimsy it was compared to a bit from even 15 years ago when I did a lot of the stuff.couple with using a box of tam lite nuts and bolts( worst I've ever used avoid at all costs) it could have been better.for swa micc FTP type cables it's ideal. Twin and earth its too sharp I find.i use a cordless jigsaw for cuts as I would have needed a hot works permit for a grinder .do agree a grinder is ideal for tray...and trunking to a lesser extent

 

[Stuuk1]

The best company in my books are Philip Graham.

The tray is by far the best! The trunking however, I hate the turn buckles, but it's nice rigid, no nonsense stuff.

If you are really stuck, you can measure up the angles and they will make any bend you want for trunking, although not sure on the cost implementation..

If you haven't tried the tray, try it some time, it's awesome!

 

[plugsandsparks]

Agree, they are not either or but both and .
Trunking is much more efficient for loads of ccts run in singles and back to the DB.
Tray is great for SWA and then running off the wall to the machines.
Trunking to conduit for singles looks the best for sockets, light switches and isolaters, espeically in bright galv. but i often use tray and swa as its quicker.
All IMHO of course

 

[Engineer54]

You use the right containment for the wiring/cabling method used. Multi core cables favour tray/basket installations, whereas a trunking/conduit containment system favours a singles wiring system!! Can't say i've ever used a metal trunking/conduit containment system as a whole, for multi core cable wiring, such as the SY cable that you used....

 

[Spoon]

We have started using these trays (Uniklip) from Unitrunk in our installs. Cable Tray - fast fitting Uniklip System: Unitrunk
They just clip together so save a lot of time. Also doesnt need earth links. We always purchase all the bends we need, some of the installation guys whinge if we dont supply them.

 

[Andy78]

Example of ladder racking...

 

[Guest111]

i love doing the metalwork stuff lol , i'd do containment for the rest of my career given the choice , hate all that faffing with wires & such ;-)
i have a dewalt cordless grinder so i can cut into existing tray already bolted to the ceiling , and quite frankly its the most useful gadget i've ever bought

I'll second that,the last firm I worked for bought me a Dewalt cordless grinder,don't think I've used a plug in since,brilliant piece of kit.

 

[Guest111]

How do you find the power compares to a corded? I have been umming and arring about a cordless for a while now but haven't had the opportunity to use one. The last one I used was some years ago and it was rubbish! I couldn't say what voltage or type the batteries were though.

The trick with the cordless is to use the 1mm INOX discs less power required and a neater cut,once you've used them you'll never use the thicker discs again.

 

[wade88]

Don't half get through them though. Inox are for stainless really (acier inoxydable, french synonym for stainless steel) but you get a laser cut on mild

 

[Guest111]

Stainless being harder than mild steel you should get more cuts in mild than stainless if using a stainless disc

 

[wade88]

Still don't get many!

 

[Engineer54]

Example of ladder racking...

View attachment 17243View attachment 17244View attachment 17245

That's a nice ladder install, but tell me, why did you bunch the SWA cables up like that??

 

[Andy78]

Mainly to make room for the others that hadn't gone in yet. The SWA feeds were installed in phases over about 24 months. I didn't do the calcs myself as I was working for a firm at this time, but I'm pretty sure it will have been taken into account.
The installation method was decided by the lead sparks on the job, also not me.

 

[Guest55]

Mainly to make room for the others that hadn't gone in yet. The SWA feeds were installed in phases over about 24 months. I didn't do the calcs myself as I was working for a firm at this time, but I'm pretty sure it will have been taken into account.
The installation method was decided by the lead sparks on the job, also not me.

whats in the warehouse that needs so many cables going in / out ?
i take it steel inspection panels going over the trench ?

 

[Andy78]

Yeah very thick steel panels went over the trench as it was a lorry yard, and the rise got cladded with aluminium sheet.
The project was a complete overhaul of a small industrial park's distribution. These were the sub mains leaving the switch/transformer room. The larger ones went to panel boards and the smaller ones went to some of the larger units' D/Bs.
Nice job to work on.

 

[wade88]

Yea...nice ladder Andy.

I work alongside Aggreko on my summer season work doing site power at festivals and stuff. It's such great work and there is a really OCD fascination that comes with laying your heavy distro out so neat. Couple hundred meters of power lock all laid out like this is a thing of beauty.

 

[pennywise]

Nice and neat nice when a jobs planned:hurray:, didn't they supply you with PVC covered builders band

 

[darkstar26]

wade, you will get to love both of these containments. They are an art form. all you can do is practice when you get the chance, we are all learning. As said, tray for swa sy ect trunk for singles, twin ect.Personel fave is trunking with tube drops down, looks great!

 

[Knobhead]

All the pictures show is how as a part of a gang you've helped run cables. What was you're input at the business end of the cables?

 

[partypest]

Another great tool for metalworking where hot work needs to be avoided: Metal Cutting Circular Saw. I have an 18v Makita job, other brands available, cuts unistrut, tray, conduit, trunking, SWA with very little burr. You can also pop a wood blade on it for a bit of timber work if needs be. Quieter and quicker than a grinder, but it's horses for courses.

 

[Engineer54]

That's basically what the contractor uses on our project, ours are frame/bench mounted jobbies!! Gives a much cleaner cut all round...

 

[i=p/u]

when taking trunking on an outside run then back into a building.... is there not a chance of water getting in if mounted on its side??? would tray or basket be better soloution?