AM2 Lighting

[Hants-Spark]

Went to a job last week, a town house on a brand new estate where the client wanted to put in a false ceiling in an alcove by the switch, all floors laminated, what can I say, I'm glad there was a neutral in the switch, made it a lot easier

 

[ackbarthestar]

no 1 is correct , no 2 isnt.

There you go Biff, you respond to the post before the one above......Lol

If using T&E with 3-Core PVC/PVC cable then both are 'correct'

I say that only because both will work.

But if you are a purist then both are wrong because it has always been regarded as non-conventional to wire conduit lighting in PVC/PVC cabling system where the neutral is taken down to the switch.

TBH who gives a didgery doo doo!. If you can't, or don't know how to, use the metal containment system as a cpc then you'll need to provide a separate cpc via the cheapest possible method........

 

[Knobhead]

Amazing! A simple switching arrangement has developed in to so much waffle. And yes, I’ve added my bit to it.

One thing that comes through, none of us are happy with the way the industry is going.

Please don’t take offence at this, house bashing would seem the principle thing covered by the training providers. Where are we going to get the industrial electricians from in the future? I’ve only ever known one guy that really crossed the boundary successfully. I known a few that have tried, they all went back in to their comfort zone.
House building doesn’t create any wealth for the country, manufacturing does. But we’re getting to stage where there will be no one to install and maintain our manufacturing base. Someone’s going to have to maul the heavy equipment in.
I’ll say this, I’ve never found domestic installations easy, it’s just not my comfort zone at all.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[YoungBart]

Amazing! A simple switching arrangement has developed in to so much waffle. And yes, I’ve added my bit to it.

One thing that comes through, none of us are happy with the way the industry is going.

Please don’t take offence at this, house bashing would seem the principle thing covered by the training providers. Where are we going to get the industrial electricians from in the future? I’ve only ever known one guy that really crossed the boundary successfully. I known a few that have tried, they all went back in to their comfort zone.
House building doesn’t create any wealth for the country, manufacturing does. But we’re getting to stage where there will be no one to install and maintain our manufacturing base. Someone’s going to have to maul the heavy equipment in.
I’ll say this, I’ve never found domestic installations easy, it’s just not my comfort zone at all.

Sorry for the rant.

Id agree with that to be fair, throughout my time at college we haven't even touched on fire alarm systems, or emergency lighting. Let alone any heavy industrial installation ideas. Luckily working in modular buildings (the easiest type of electrics) I've learnt areas that lads who only do domestic haven't.
I appreciate colleges and tutors now have a lot more to cram in what with Healh and safety, renewable energies etc but I do feel that certain 'basics' are being forgotten.
I also wouldn't have minded having a few lessons on business related stuff, I.e. what's involved in setting up, business laws and the such. Just to quickly give new starters a basic idea as to what's involved.

 

[Marcusdmullins]

2 is right young Bart. Biff is wrong. Live and switched live into L1 andL2 with your black and grey of your three core and your brown of your three core in the common. When you get to your intermediate switch you need to block your brown cores together and connect your strappers into the switch. Hope this helps.

 

[ackbarthestar]

What a delight to find both loop in live and neutral down at the switch.
The previous sparkie had been thinking on his/her feet as opposed to a ladder, and made provision for a two way PIR switch combination for the outside lights.
We were able to complete the job in less than a day without touching the newly decorated house. So much for purists

You can go back to sleep now !

 

[Guest55]

2 is right young Bart. Biff is wrong.

like hell i am.
method 2 of that wiring diagram will not be accepted in the Am2 test whether it works or not.
for the purposes of the exam they are looking for a particular wiring method of the intermediate switching even if there are 3 different ways of doing it.
my way will pass the exam , as confirmed in post #11 by a chap who did the Am2 recently ,
yours wont.

 

[YoungBart]

Well thanks for all the help. I've got my resit coming up next week and have just had a email from my assesor to go over exactly what I did wrong. As suspected I fed my lights to the wrong switch, And I didn't tighten my earth clamps up enough (Down to nerves and using the 'quick clamp' which I have never used before) But also he said I had my SWA glands the wrong way around? Is anyone aware of what he could of meant by this?, I've been trying to get hold of him But he's away for a few days.

 

[Knobhead]

I can’t think how you could get a gland the wrong way round. Let us know what he says because it sounds utter cobblers to me.
It was possible with the old stalk glands, I’ve never seen one of those for 20 years!

 

[Marvo]

I can’t think how you could get a gland the wrong way round......

Me neither, I would have thought it would be practically impossible unless it's a type of gland I haven't come across

 

[Dcf]

The only thing I can think of is in a cw gland the ring that clamps onto the armour maybe?
or if the lock nut is used there is one side that bites onto the metal.
A quick visual will tell you if it's right or not.
apart from that I've no idea what he means

 

[Hants-Spark]

Maybe the question stated that one end of the SWA was external and the other not, and the OP put the CW/BW the wrong way round??? Who knows

 

[Lou7]

If neutrals were supposed to be at switches you'd have neutral terminals on them. People are saying that they put floating blocks in the back of switch boxes is a no-no for me. Ws always taught to use fixed base connectors, and you can't do that in a switch box. there are two wiring methods for 2-way wiring, Conventional (2 plate) singles in containment and Conversion (3 plate) T&E.

 

[YoungBart]

The Issue was with the lock nut, I should have placed the flat side to the enclosure, although trying to find a flat side of well worn, well rounded lock nut isn't that easy. He did say he was being harsh as he was being assessed by NET at the time.

 

[diditrain]

someone should design a switch box with a neutral docking station, then the aficionados will be happy

 

[KAS1]

Lets just hope it doesn't become common practice to take neutrals to switches in situations when they are not required, if they are required so be it, if not it's usually to cut costs/corners.

 

[Silly Sausage]

If neutrals were supposed to be at switches you'd have neutral terminals on them. People are saying that they put floating blocks in the back of switch boxes is a no-no for me. Ws always taught to use fixed base connectors, and you can't do that in a switch box. there are two wiring methods for 2-way wiring, Conventional (2 plate) singles in containment and Conversion (3 plate) T&E.

What you need here is this!
Hager - sollysta

 

[Guest55]

Lets just hope it doesn't become common practice to take neutrals to switches in situations when they are not required, if they are required so be it, if not it's usually to cut costs/corners.

its been common practice to take neutrals to switches on every commercial contract i've ever worked on in the last 20 years that hasnt involved singles in conduit............

 

[Plonker 3]

If neutrals were supposed to be at switches you'd have neutral terminals on them. People are saying that they put floating blocks in the back of switch boxes is a no-no for me.

So what do you do with through crimps?

 

[Lou7]

Through crimps are permanent joints,not connector blocks. Therefore no need to fix them. Even choc boxes have a peg to keep the block in place.

 

[Engineer54]

its been common practice to take neutrals to switches on every commercial contract i've ever worked on in the last 20 years that hasnt involved singles in conduit............

Well, within that time period you stated, i did some work for a large shopping centre, in the UK and i can categorically tell you it was NOT allowed on that project, and went even further, by actually stating in the specification that loop feeding at the switches was not acceptable!! One small sub contractor working on a smallish satellite building which was spec'd for T&E wiring didn't take any notice, and consequently had the lot ripped out and almost thrown off the job to boot!!

So i'd say, it's far from ''common practice''!!

 

[SirusDvirus]

Did the same on my AM2..T/E to the light and 3 core across the switches, neutrals joint in the switch and common joint in the intermediate and whilst on the seperate test rig I checked to see how that was done and same outcome, you can only do what you are asked on the AM2 spec :S ,but they now do switches with a neutral block as part of the switch.

 

[KAS1]

If you read my post I have said "in situations when they are not required" so I take it from your input you take neutrals to switches just to save a penny here and there, what is the point of your remark yet again a dig I fear, biff keep your remarks to yourself unless they are relevant

its been common practice to take neutrals to switches on every commercial contract i've ever worked on in the last 20 years that hasnt involved singles in conduit............

 

[Guest55]

If you read my post I have said "in situations when they are not required" so I take it from your input you take neutrals to switches just to save a penny here and there, what is the point of your remark yet again a dig I fear, biff keep your remarks to yourself unless they are relevant

firstly , i'll say what i want until admin says otherwise.......
secondly , my post was making the point that its industry practice to take the neutral to the switch on many commercial contracts , hence is relevent to the topic at hand.
thirdly , wiring it in such a manner doesnt save money at all as it uses more cable but yields other benefits to installation methods.

so when youve taken your head out your arse for 5 minutes come back and debate a bit more without being a numpty.

 

[KAS1]

Here we go again FFS

firstly , i'll say what i want until admin says otherwise.......
secondly , my post was making the point that its industry practice to take the neutral to the switch on many commercial contracts , hence is relevent to the topic at hand.
thirdly , wiring it in such a manner doesnt save money at all as it uses more cable but yields other benefits to installation methods.

so when youve taken your head out your arse for 5 minutes come back and debate a bit more without being a numpty.

- - - Updated - - -

Biff has spoken lol

 

[Guest55]

Here we go again FFS

nope , youre still being a numpty
;-)

 

[KAS1]

BIFF has spoken

nope , youre still being a numpty
;-)

 

[Guest55]

well done ! youve finally mastered the quote button lol.

 

[KAS1]

FFS JFO work that out BIFF FFS

well done ! youve finally mastered the quote button lol.

 

[Silly Sausage]

and 4thly,
I'd rather listen to Biff any day of the week!