Asbestos behind 3036 fuses solution needed?

[Davehaywire]

What coding would you be giving for old DBS with asbestos behind fuses? As its not affecting electrical safety?
is there something you can put in place of the asbestos when removed, as its to hold in arcing or flashing when the fuse wire blows right?
if you remove the asbestos does this then make the db equipment to be installed against manufacturers requirements?

 

[jeremy]

Why are you disturbing the asbestos?

 

[Davehaywire]

Pulling of fuses to check fuse wire size and also to isolate circuits to e I c r

 

[Guest111]

just pull the fuse and leave the asbestos alone,there's a very minimal risk from it anyway.

 

[Flanders]

You need to go and look at the HSE web site HSE - Asbestos: Asbestos essentials and decide if it is safe to be carrying out the work opinions differ on this from you will be fine just crack on with it. to shut the DB door don't touch it !! take a look at the web and and see what you think

 

[Davehaywire]

just pull the fuse and leave the asbestos alone,there's a very minimal risk from it anyway.

Should it not be removed ,pulling the fuse creates dust, even a minimal risk is a risk and if your pulling a 1000 minimal risk fuses that will make the minimal risk greater surely?

 

[guest119]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/guidance/a33.pdf

 

[Engineer54]

Should it not be removed ,pulling the fuse creates dust, even a minimal risk is a risk and if your pulling a 1000 minimal risk fuses that will make the minimal risk greater surely?

The old boy's like myself have probably pulled many 1000's of these fuses, they are still here to tell the tale!! Hell it was one of my jobs as an apprentice to go round during our factory shutdowns replacing the glazed asbestos wading behind the fuse carriers cutting from different width rolls of the stuff.

Only the other day i suggested to another poster here, that if you're that concerned about pulling a 3036 fuse, pass the job on to another qualified electrician that hasn't surcomed to all the scaremongery that surrounds these old fuse boards that contain asbestos flash guards....

 

[odawire]

I'm no expert but I've always assumed it's white asbestos used in those boards and as such, simply pulling the fuse out poses very little risk, if any.

 

[telectrix]

having smoked 20 -30 king size smokes a day for 50 years, i don't think a few crummy asbestos flash guards can do me any harm. LOL.

 

[Lighthouse Phil]

Its an expensive and professional job to have the asbestos removed, you shouldn't be removing it yourself as you will need to be licensed to dispose of the asbestos.
The dust you see when you pull the fuse carrier out is more then likely from some other source and not from the flash guard / asbestos which has sat there happily for many years.

 

[Engineer54]

Electricians that have developed asbestos related lung diseases, have in the most part been subjected to airborne blue or grey asbestos dust while working in or around laggers, during buildings construction. The most dangerous being the area they were mixing the product prior to installing the layers of lagging to pipes and ductwork etc.....


Trying to say that these tiny bits of glazed white asbestos flash guards represent anywhere near the same danger level, is frankly taking the Pee. Not saying that you shouldn't be careful or not use commonsense, but pulling a fuse (or several fuses) ain't gonna kill you in 30 years time either!! lol!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

I was a toddler of about 3 years old when Mum had an ironing board.

It was made from wood and folded up when it was not in use. There was a shelf thing on the end to rest the iron on and this shelf thing had a pad of asbestos.

When the board was not in use it was folded up and leaned against the kitchen wall, the asbestos pad was at the perfect height for me to pick and scratch bits off it and try to eat it.

Then there was my hobby of Model Engineering where I made model steam engines with asbestos lagging on the boilers and asbestos gaskets on the cylinder and valve chest covers - all cut from asbestos sheet by hand.

I am now well on the wrong side of 60 years old but I'm still here.

My Mother's uncle on the other hand worked as a lagger in the power station and worked with large quantities of the stuff day in and day out. He died of cancer aged about 70.

I do not think the relatively small amount found in fuse boxes is going to do much harm.

 

[Richard Burns]

Remember that all asbestos is dangerous, the difference between white, blue and brown is not really a significant issue as it can take just one asbestos fibre to cause problems.
Yes blue and brown have more spiky fibers and so have more chance of getting caught in the lungs than being expelled but any fiber could lodge in the lungs.

That said the risk from undisturbed asbestos is minimal, the flash guards being a case in point.
To remove them would generate far more risk than leaving them in place.
Any reasonable risk assessment would include procedures for not disturbing the flash guard in normal use but should not recommend removal unless the equipment is being decommissioned.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Remember that all asbestos is dangerous, the difference between white, blue and brown is not really a significant issue as it can take just one asbestos fibre to cause problems.
Yes blue and brown have more spiky fibers and so have more chance of getting caught in the lungs than being expelled but any fiber could lodge in the lungs.

That said the risk from undisturbed asbestos is minimal, the flash guards being a case in point.
To remove them would generate far more risk than leaving them in place.
Any reasonable risk assessment would include procedures for not disturbing the flash guard in normal use but should not recommend removal unless the equipment is being decommissioned.

Agreed

Very sensible.

 

[Engineer54]

Remember that all asbestos is dangerous, the difference between white, blue and brown is not really a significant issue as it can take just one asbestos fibre to cause problems.
Yes blue and brown have more spiky fibers and so have more chance of getting caught in the lungs than being expelled but any fiber could lodge in the lungs.

That said the risk from undisturbed asbestos is minimal, the flash guards being a case in point.
To remove them would generate far more risk than leaving them in place.
Any reasonable risk assessment would include procedures for not disturbing the flash guard in normal use but should not recommend removal unless the equipment is being decommissioned.

Sorry, but there ''IS'' a significant difference in the types of asbestos related to death and disease. If you have attended one of these Asbestos Awareness courses, they make that aspect very clear.

 

[Richard Burns]

Sorry, but there ''IS'' a significant difference in the types of asbestos related to death and disease. If you have attended one of these Asbestos Awareness courses, they make that aspect very clear.

I agree that blue and brown asbestos have risk levels an order of magnitude above that of white asbestos in terms of levels of exposure to the correct lengths of fine particles and that the identified risks from white asbestos are not fully quantified.
However it is fairly certain that a risk is still present for the white asbestos to cause lung problems, though generally at high concentrations of exposure.

Because that risk is present and because it is not possible to tell without analysis the type of asbestos and therefore if there are contaminants of the other types of asbestos (dependent on the source of the mineral) it is better to assume that "asbestos" in general does have a risk factor and to handle the material appropriately without taking account of the actual type, if you are considering asbestos from a layman's point of view.

However since the risk factors from undisturbed asbestos, i.e. there are no fibres present in the air, is at an absolute minimum there is no need to take extreme measures. prevention of the release of fibers is the best way to limit the risks.
Exposing asbestos removal workers to additional risk by removing the material and also presenting a potential risk to later occupants / users of an area should the containment not have been complete at the time of removal does not seems to me to be a good idea.

 

[Deleted member 72666]

having smoked 20 -30 king size smokes a day for 50 years, i don't think a few crummy asbestos flash guards can do me any harm. LOL.

Can see that making a good epitaph!

 

[Engineer54]

I agree that blue and brown asbestos have risk levels an order of magnitude above that of white asbestos in terms of levels of exposure to the correct lengths of fine particles and that the identified risks from white asbestos are not fully quantified.
However it is fairly certain that a risk is still present for the white asbestos to cause lung problems, though generally at high concentrations of exposure.

Because that risk is present and because it is not possible to tell without analysis the type of asbestos and therefore if there are contaminants of the other types of asbestos (dependent on the source of the mineral) it is better to assume that "asbestos" in general does have a risk factor and to handle the material appropriately without taking account of the actual type, if you are considering asbestos from a layman's point of view.

However since the risk factors from undisturbed asbestos, i.e. there are no fibres present in the air, is at an absolute minimum there is no need to take extreme measures. prevention of the release of fibers is the best way to limit the risks.
Exposing asbestos removal workers to additional risk by removing the material and also presenting a potential risk to later occupants / users of an area should the containment not have been complete at the time of removal does not seems to me to be a good idea.

At the end of the day here, were talking about pulling 3036 fuses in order to conduct a PIR (or whatever they call it now) So no need to touch or disturb the flash guard in anyway shape or form., why the OP is talking about removal/replacement i haven't a clue?

All i know is that, i wouldn't give pulling such fuses a second thought. You'll soon see if any extra care is required once the fuse has been pulled, ...rarely the case!!

 

[jay sean]

I went on a abestos course at work, and never knew the fibres can stay in the air for a few weeks.
With the asbestos DBs, we have a clause in our LIMs that we do not open the asbestos DBs if we suspect presence

 

[Flanders]

I went on a abestos course at work, and never knew the fibres can stay in the air for a few weeks.
With the asbestos DBs, we have a clause in our LIMs that we do not open the asbestos DBs if we suspect presence

Yes we do the same thing I have spoke to various health and safety bods and they all say the same thing "if you suspect asbestos walk away" , I myself was always working on these boards years ago but now take a much cautious approach, The older boys on this site and in the real world will disagree(and already have ) but this is were I stand on the matter :nuke:

 

[Engineer54]

I went on a abestos course at work, and never knew the fibres can stay in the air for a few weeks.
With the asbestos DBs, we have a clause in our LIMs that we do not open the asbestos DBs if we suspect presence

And did they tell you on that abestos awareness course that BS 3036 electrical DB's were so dangerous, that you shouldn't even open the door?? ....NO THEY DIDN'T!!

Why would you're company ever even bother to quote for a job involving ANY old BS 3036 DB's, if they are frightened to even open the door let alone pull a fuse, ....and oh my god to even think of performing any tests or to work on it!!!! lol!!

Yes we do the same thing I have spoke to various health and safety bods and they all say the same thing "if you suspect asbestos walk away" , I myself was always working on these boards years ago but now take a much cautious approach, The older boys on this site and in the real world will disagree(and already have ) but this is were I stand on the matter :nuke:

If you are talking about BS 3036 fuse boards, Absolute crap with a capital C!!

I've been on at least half a dozen of these HSE courses over the years, and all of them have had to state when pushed, that the perceived danger relating to the small amount of ''Glazed'' white asbestos fuse flash guard material, is at most ''Minimal''!! Nothing wrong in being cautious, but making out these old rewirable fuse boards are dangerous to your health if you pull a fuse is just perpetuating the ill informed scaremongery!!

 

[Sparky2391]

H & S Gone MAD! We wouldn't be able to touch any of the 3036 boards if we believed everything we heard!!!.... Common sense should always prevail... if there's any left around! Worked on these boards for years... and how many more of them are still out there as potential dangers?!?!?!?! Quite simple as most have said.... don't remove/disturb un-necessarily and carry on with the work. The HSE even have a guide documenting fuse box or single fuse assembly removal - a33. Regarding disposal - any local recycling centre will accept asbestos as long as you inform them of it!

 

[sparkdog]

I'll just slip into my asbestos suit,this thread is getting a bit hot.

 

[nickblake]

buggered if the fuse goes then !!

 

[Geordie Spark]

I'll just slip into my asbestos suit,this thread is getting a bit hot.

It's getting ridiculously hysterical.

If we to take notice of everything we're told is harmful we'd never get out of bed and never eat or drink anything.

 

[KAS1]

They'll soon be telling us e-gigs are harmful lol

 

[Geordie Spark]

They'll soon be telling us e-gigs are harmful lol

Looking back, I wonder sometimes how I've survived this long.

 

[KAS1]

It'll be fibre glass next, I wondered why they supplied us with masks, gloves and a 110v henry vacuum cleaner when cutting and drilling the tray on the channel tunnel all them fibres bloody nightmare lol perhaps we would all be dropping like flies by now...........without the henry..........

 

[Geordie Spark]

It'll be fibre glass next, I wondered why they supplied us with masks, gloves and a 110v henry vacuum cleaner when cutting and drilling the tray on the channel tunnel all them fibres bloody nightmare lol perhaps we would all be dropping like flies by now...........without the henry..........

Bloody awful stuff fibreglass. Give me good old honest Asbestos any day of the week.

 

[telectrix]

i hedar the yanks have banned fibreglass insulation anyway. not sure how true it is.

 

[Geordie Spark]

i hedar the yanks have banned fibreglass insulation anyway. not sure how true it is.

Typical Yanks .. just have no sense of adventure!

 

[guest119]

MDF was at one time said to be the new asbestos but now apparently safe as the fibres are nowhere as small as asbestos.

Boydy

 

[PEG]

Me Grandad worked for Turner and Newall for 45 years,in the production and manufacture of asbestos,shovelling "shoddy" on to carts for cattle bedding. He lived to be 96. I went to his cremation,it was very moving,and took 42 hours......

 

[ipf]

Me Grandad worked for Turner and Newall for 45 years,in the production and manufacture of asbestos,shovelling "shoddy" on to carts for cattle bedding. He lived to be 96. I went to his cremation,it was very moving,and took 42 hours......

Th'owd fella did twenty odd years with them. Damn sure he'll not be crappin' his self over a few flash guards......even if they were on security at Turners.

 

[the pict]

Just read the PDF posted by Boydy, I am changind an old 3036 board for the local authority, if I followed the reccomendations on the PDF I would have needed to add a day and a half to cover the extra work, as it is all the fuses will be double bagged in poly marked up as hazard and taken to the local waste ammenity its there stuff anyway so job done. I wondered about the bucket of water tho ???
Pict

 

[Guest111]

I worked on a liner and one time we were working in a room,went for lunch and came back to find the room sealed as apparently asbestos had been found in there (pipe lagging) it was absolutely farcical, they were going on about H&S,you can't do this that and the other,yet they handed my tools back and my box was covered in dust out of this room that they had covered it in.