CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 years

[Gavin A]

Atmospheric CO2 concentrations broke through the 400ppm threshold for the first time in 800,000 years in May at 7 monitoring stations around the Arctic circle, according to an announcement from NOAA.“The northern sites in our monitoring network tell us what is coming soon to the globe as a whole. We will likely see global average CO2 concentrations reach 400 ppm about 2016."
Pieter Tans, an atmospheric scientist with NOAA’s Earth System Research Laboratory (ESRL)
Average global atmospheric CO2 concentrations are also predicted to rise above 400ppm by 2016, from around 280ppm prior to the industrial revolution, and 390.4ppm in 2011.

I had to have a little rant about this landmark being passed on our blog, as this is far far earlier than anyone thought even vaguely possibly back in the 90's when I was studying climate change science and policy.

It's an absolute disgrace that the rate that atmospheric CO2 concentrations is rising increased significantly last decade after falling slightly in the 90s as the first wave of CO2 reduction measures kicked in.

Our politicians have been shown to be all mouth and no trousers on this issue, with any minor gains we've made in this country being massively offset by the amount of carbon emissions we've exported to china etc. as successive governments have continued to shift all the heavy industry out of this country.

Personally I hope that one day they'll be properly held to account for their inactivity on this issue, with punishment to fit the crime against humanity that they will have been shown to have perpetrated.



Full article - CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 years

 

[sambotc]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Might help if they stopped cutting down all the tree's as well

 

[telectrix]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

and stop cows farting.

 

[sambotc]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Thought cows farted methane not co2? Either way it's all hot air if you ask me :leaving:

 

[kingeri]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

It's ludicrous when we have so much clean and free energy available to us, and the technology to harvest it, that we still insist on burning our way through the planet's fossil fuels. And we're supposed to be the intelligent species here.

 

[sambotc]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Free energy that costs a lot of money to harvest though, personally I think what is more ridiculous is that we are decimating one of the earths natural resources that converts co2 into o2 without replacing them responsibly. Not to mention the other effects it has on wildlife etc

Just to add i'm not a greenpeace member or a tree hugger, just a realist

 

[Earthstore]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

I have said this before but here I go again...
The problem is money, lots of money, every time you fill up your van you give about £50 to the government, I do the same, look at all the cars, vans and lorries on the roads today, all giving their £50's to the government, so they can spend it wisely, by giving it to other countries, or the lazy sods that do not work, or build duck houses, or however they see fit, this also applies to the fuel in our houses and work places, so why would they really want us all producing free green energy?
What would all the lazy sods and ducks do without all this money?
it will happen though, and things are changing, it is just a shame that politics have to be involved because of the reasons above.
These are just my thoughts, but when you have to follow the politics almost daily, and you look at the wider picture, you do get a feel of what is really going on.

 

[dansk]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

At the end of the day the planet is screwed, i find installing solar a double edge sword, it saves carbon, but how much carbon is produced during manufacture and shipping half way around the globe.

 

[Earthstore]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

At the end of the day the planet is screwed, i find installing solar a double edge sword, it saves carbon, but how much carbon is produced during manufacture and shipping half way around the globe.

Said to be carbon neutral in 2-3years of service, not too sure how they calculate this, but that is what I have read.

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

At the end of the day the planet is screwed, i find installing solar a double edge sword, it saves carbon, but how much carbon is produced during manufacture and shipping half way around the globe.

energy return on investment should usually be in the 8-12:1 region, depending how long the solar stays up for it could be a lot higher than that.

It does depend quite a bit on how much diesel is used delivering and installing the kit, scaffolding etc, which is where local installs are a advantage.

 

[SolarCity]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Personally I hope that one day they'll be properly held to account for their inactivity on this issue, with punishment to fit the crime against humanity that they will have been shown to have perpetrated.

I don't think I've ever agreed with a point more on this forum than I do with this.

 

[Strima]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

The problem is that most western countries have reduced their emissions only to be taken over by far eastern countries such as India and China (other countries available), until they sort their acts out nothing will change.

 

[SolarCity]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

The problem is that most western countries have reduced their emissions only to be taken over by far eastern countries such as India and China (other countries available), until they sort their acts out nothing will change.

But not enough. Britain's effort has been utterly pathetic.

We can start worrying about India and China when we've sorted our own mess out.

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

The problem is that most western countries have reduced their emissions only to be taken over by far eastern countries such as India and China (other countries available), until they sort their acts out nothing will change.

more to the point that we've exported our emissions to china and india along with our heavy industry, ie a large percentage of china and india's emmissions stem from making stuff that they then export to us for us to consume.

This is all down to our politicians obsession with neoliberalist globalisation over the last 30 years, along with them actually being quite happy to destroy our industry and even happier to make it seem like we're doing good things to reduce our own emissions. Also, if the US had joined the kyoto agreement in the 90's, then the world would have been in a much better position to renogotiate it in the 2000's once China and Inidia's emissions had risen (as they were allowed to under kyoto).

FWIW, the only way the UK managed to achieve it's CO2 reduction target for 2010 (on top of exporting a lot of it) was via the massive recession of 2008. Without this we'd have missed our CO2 targets by a long way.

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

or to put it another way, if we weren't signatories to the WTO agreements, then we would have the option to influence the carbon emissions of those countries supplying goods to us by putting a carbon tax on high carbon imports or similar.

WTO bans any country from doing anything like that, the only thing that matters under WTO is free trade, and anything that gets in the way of free trade such as environmental or social concerns... well they just don't count, and governments will be fined severely if they do anything that might be seen as a restriction on free trade even if it's for well justified environmental reasons.

 

[Earthstore]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

What happened with the CRS (Carbon Reduction Scheme) if that was what it was called? Was it September 2011?
Where all large users of energy had to document their carbon footprint or they would get a large fine, then it was going to be rolled out to smaller businesses.

Not heard much of this recently...

 

[babba]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Thanks for the Big picture Gav. Great post on what is really important and does the greenes government EVER care do they fc uk.
BIG 6, BIG OIL are the real winners in the race to the end. Hope planet earth has enough sense to run out of natural resores as we call them ?.. because if shes waiting for man unkind to see the light, shes doomed

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

What happened with the CRS (Carbon Reduction Scheme) if that was what it was called? Was it September 2011?
Where all large users of energy had to document their carbon footprint or they would get a large fine, then it was going to be rolled out to smaller businesses.

Not heard much of this recently...

carbon reduction commitment?

the original scheme was actually quite good. It only applied to very big energy users, and was actually cost neutral over all, as IIRC it ranks all companies in order of their carbon reduction levels, the worst performers would then pay into the scheme, and the best performance would get paid from the scheme to reward them for their carbon saving efforts, so net financial impact on uk business would have been nil.

What actually happened was that DECC decided to steal the money from the scheme after a lot of companies had already spent a lot of money making improvements, so that now it's just a straight carbon tax on those worst performances, and the best performance just get to avoid some of that tax... net result a massive drain on UK business.

IIRC the CRC money basically was taken by decc and effectively went to fund the RHI scheme, and nuclear decommissioning authority budget increase.

Basically there seems to be nothing that DECC haven't completely cocked up, and if there is then we can be fairly sure they'll move on to cocking that right up as well just as soon as they can get round to it.

 

[Earthstore]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Thanks Gavin, CRC, I remembered after I had posted it.

They kept that quiet then, still, I guess that is politics.
This has been the first thing that i have done in my life that is run by politics, and it is truly rotton, (being polite there).

 

[dansk]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Thanks Gavin, CRC, I remembered after I had posted it.

They kept that quiet then, still, I guess that is politics.
This has been the first thing that i have done in my life that is run by politics, and it is truly rotton, (being polite there).

same here,

 

[UNG]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

So we had the technology to measure this 800,000 years ago

Our climate is affected by more than our own excesses not least the rest of the solar system

Climate change is just part of the evolution of the solar system and galaxy of which we are a part by reducing carbon emissions are we going to slow down the evolution of the rest of the solar system I think not

We have a number of planets some which have a moon or more all circling the sun at different speeds and in different orbits does any one know what happens when they roughly form a line to one side of the sun (not sure when this will happen) does something go bang

Back in the last ice age did some one get worried about global warming then, look how much it has warmed up from then or prior to the ice age was there panic because it was cooling down

Unfortunately we have no historic records to refer to prove anything at best climate change is based on 200 - 250 years of records not the complete history of this planet called Earth

This whole subject has evolved from global warming to climate change yet there is little mentioned about the rest of the solar system and it's part in our life apart from solar activity from the sun affecting communications here

This IMO is just another expensive inconclusive on going study that is costing millions and actually proving nothing other than we are heading to another big bang and a planet or solar system reset

 

[Earthstore]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

I would agree with most of what you have written, the Ice melted without the 4x4's and industry "warming up our planet".

But, there is always a but, do you think it is a good idea to keep digging up all the carbon, coal, oil and gas and then releasing it into the atmosphere?

It can not be helping the situation, and we do have viable alternatives that are now available to supply energy, but as I wrote in a previous post, it is all about money, lots of money..

 

[babba]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

So we had the technology to measure this 800,000 years ago

Our climate is affected by more than our own excesses not least the rest of the solar system

Climate change is just part of the evolution of the solar system and galaxy of which we are a part by reducing carbon emissions are we going to slow down the evolution of the rest of the solar system I think not

We have a number of planets some which have a moon or more all circling the sun at different speeds and in different orbits does any one know what happens when they roughly form a line to one side of the sun (not sure when this will happen) does something go bang

Back in the last ice age did some one get worried about global warming then, look how much it has warmed up from then or prior to the ice age was there panic because it was cooling down

Unfortunately we have no historic records to refer to prove anything at best climate change is based on 200 - 250 years of records not the complete history of this planet called Earth

This whole subject has evolved from global warming to climate change yet there is little mentioned about the rest of the solar system and it's part in our life apart from solar activity from the sun affecting communications here

This IMO is just another expensive inconclusive on going study that is costing millions and actually proving nothing other than we are heading to another big bang and a planet or solar system reset

So all the carbon we send out is having no effect in speeding things up ?

 

[babba]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Greenhouse effect (in a bottle) explained - YouTube

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

But not enough. Britain's effort has been utterly pathetic.

We can start worrying about India and China when we've sorted our own mess out.

I prefer Sean Lock's take on recycling & our countrys efforts- " like turning up to an earthquake with a dustpan & brush".

Surely its a better idea that the 5 billion (or so) in india, china, US , did their bit? I think then me washing out marmite jars will become fairly insignificant!!!

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

This IMO is just another expensive inconclusive on going study that is costing millions and actually proving nothing other than we are heading to another big bang and a planet or solar system reset

You've presumably studied the subject in depth before deciding the consensus opinions of those who've spent their lifetimes studying the subject in detail is wrong?

So we had the technology to measure this 800,000 years ago

unlikely, but if you were to take a huge core drill & drill a 3.2km core out of the deepest bits of the Antarctic ice sheets, then painstakingly analyse the minute air bubbles trapped in each years snow layers, you'd be able to accurately work out what the atmospheric CO2 concentration was 800,000 years ago.

Or rather you would if you were a scientist trained in that sort of thing and prepared to spend years working in Antarctica in the most extreme conditions on the planet to get this data only to find it then dismissed by numpties on the internet who know nothing about the subject.

Our climate is affected by more than our own excesses not least the rest of the solar system

yes, and solar output has decreased slightly since precise satellite measurements of the total solar irradiation reaching the outer atmosphere began 35 years ago, which categorically proves that it's not the sun what dunnit. In fact the reductions in solar output mean that they've actually helped mask the impact from the increased greenhouse gas concentrations.

Climate change is just part of the evolution of the solar system and galaxy of which we are a part by reducing carbon emissions are we going to slow down the evolution of the rest of the solar system I think not

come again?

We have a number of planets some which have a moon or more all circling the sun at different speeds and in different orbits does any one know what happens when they roughly form a line to one side of the sun (not sure when this will happen) does something go bang

brief eclipses of the sun on all the planets, probably hippies will bang on about it quite a bit, then nothing much else. What were you thinking might happen?

Back in the last ice age did some one get worried about global warming then, look how much it has warmed up from then or prior to the ice age was there panic because it was cooling down

I'd imagine many did get worried about it and rightly so, although there was nobody back then to predict it, and nothing they could do to prevent it.

It was responsible for the mass migration of a huge proportion of the human and animal population, likely caused the eventual demise of neanderthal man, led to most of northern Europe and America being uninhabitable for several millenia, then being rapidly repopulated once the ice started to thaw.

Unfortunately we have no historic records to refer to prove anything at best climate change is based on 200 - 250 years of records not the complete history of this planet called Earth

you might not, but the totality of science actually has a huge amount of data relating to the historic climate of the planet gathered from a wide variety of proxy sources.

This whole subject has evolved from global warming to climate change yet there is little mentioned about the rest of the solar system and it's part in our life apart from solar activity from the sun affecting communications here

The only reason for the process being mostly referred to as climate change as opposed to global warming is down to the perception that stemmed from the global warming name, that 'well we wouldn't mind it being a bit warmer in the UK anyway, so what's the problem'.

The name 'climate change' more accurately reflects the fact that it's not about some average level of warming across the globe, but about the huge and varied impacts this will have on all aspects of the climate all over the planet.

I've no idea what you're meaning when referring to the rest of the solar system tbh.

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

I prefer Sean Lock's take on recycling & our countrys efforts- " like turning up to an earthquake with a dustpan & brush".

Surely its a better idea that the 5 billion (or so) in india, china, US , did their bit? I think then me washing out marmite jars will become fairly insignificant!!!

but average consumption levels in India and China are already far lower than here, so why should they do their bit if you won't do yours?

 

[Guest111]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

said it before and i,ll say it again,this global warming is a part of a natural cycle it,s going to happen no matter what we do!The only thingthat does matter is not falling for all the crap spouted by the government,lets face it if it were possible to change things then it would be done without ripping everyone off.make it dearer to use non energy efficient products than green ones,but no they want to put everyone on a guilt trip and take more cash lets face it they tell us to use smaller cars and public transport or walk,well how come they send out 1 minister in a big v6 jag etc.Sorry if this offends anybody but I think that anyone who can,t see whats happening needs to look closer and anyone who falls for all this government clap trap should be locked up in a padded room.rant over!

 

[UNG]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

I would agree with most of what you have written, the Ice melted without the 4x4's and industry "warming up our planet".

But, there is always a but, do you think it is a good idea to keep digging up all the carbon, coal, oil and gas and then releasing it into the atmosphere?

It can not be helping the situation, and we do have viable alternatives that are now available to supply energy, but as I wrote in a previous post, it is all about money, lots of money..

Strange you don't mention the Toyota Prius about as unenvironmentally friendly as you can get

So all the carbon we send out is having no effect in speeding things up ?

Not sure it is

You've presumably studied the subject in depth before deciding the consensus opinions of those who've spent their lifetimes studying the subject in detail is wrong?


unlikely, but if you were to take a huge core drill & drill a 3.2km core out of the deepest bits of the Antarctic ice sheets, then painstakingly analyse the minute air bubbles trapped in each years snow layers, you'd be able to accurately work out what the atmospheric CO2 concentration was 800,000 years ago.

Or rather you would if you were a scientist trained in that sort of thing and prepared to spend years working in Antarctica in the most extreme conditions on the planet to get this data only to find it then dismissed by numpties on the internet who know nothing about the subject.


yes, and solar output has decreased slightly since precise satellite measurements of the total solar irradiation reaching the outer atmosphere began 35 years ago, which categorically proves that it's not the sun what dunnit. In fact the reductions in solar output mean that they've actually helped mask the impact from the increased greenhouse gas concentrations.

come again?

brief eclipses of the sun on all the planets, probably hippies will bang on about it quite a bit, then nothing much else. What were you thinking might happen?

I'd imagine many did get worried about it and rightly so, although there was nobody back then to predict it, and nothing they could do to prevent it.

It was responsible for the mass migration of a huge proportion of the human and animal population, likely caused the eventual demise of neanderthal man, led to most of northern Europe and America being uninhabitable for several millenia, then being rapidly repopulated once the ice started to thaw.


you might not, but the totality of science actually has a huge amount of data relating to the historic climate of the planet gathered from a wide variety of proxy sources.


The only reason for the process being mostly referred to as climate change as opposed to global warming is down to the perception that stemmed from the global warming name, that 'well we wouldn't mind it being a bit warmer in the UK anyway, so what's the problem'.

The name 'climate change' more accurately reflects the fact that it's not about some average level of warming across the globe, but about the huge and varied impacts this will have on all aspects of the climate all over the planet.

I've no idea what you're meaning when referring to the rest of the solar system tbh.

Your response is typical of what happens when someone casts doubt on climate change and doesn't warrant a response other than to object to the derogatory term used part way through which could be used against yourself

 

[Guest111]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

HERE HERE! nice one U N G no mention by our learned friend of the emminent scientist who had evidence to prove that global warming was a cyclical event and who was threatened with ruin by government bodies!