CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 years

[Gavin A]

Atmospheric CO2 concentrations broke through the 400ppm threshold for the first time in 800,000 years in May at 7 monitoring stations around the Arctic circle, according to an announcement from NOAA.“The northern sites in our monitoring network tell us what is coming soon to the globe as a whole. We will likely see global average CO2 concentrations reach 400 ppm about 2016."
Pieter Tans, an atmospheric scientist with NOAA’s Earth System Research Laboratory (ESRL)
Average global atmospheric CO2 concentrations are also predicted to rise above 400ppm by 2016, from around 280ppm prior to the industrial revolution, and 390.4ppm in 2011.

I had to have a little rant about this landmark being passed on our blog, as this is far far earlier than anyone thought even vaguely possibly back in the 90's when I was studying climate change science and policy.

It's an absolute disgrace that the rate that atmospheric CO2 concentrations is rising increased significantly last decade after falling slightly in the 90s as the first wave of CO2 reduction measures kicked in.

Our politicians have been shown to be all mouth and no trousers on this issue, with any minor gains we've made in this country being massively offset by the amount of carbon emissions we've exported to china etc. as successive governments have continued to shift all the heavy industry out of this country.

Personally I hope that one day they'll be properly held to account for their inactivity on this issue, with punishment to fit the crime against humanity that they will have been shown to have perpetrated.



Full article - CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 years

 

[sambotc]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Might help if they stopped cutting down all the tree's as well

 

[telectrix]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

and stop cows farting.

 

[sambotc]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Thought cows farted methane not co2? Either way it's all hot air if you ask me :leaving:

 

[kingeri]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

It's ludicrous when we have so much clean and free energy available to us, and the technology to harvest it, that we still insist on burning our way through the planet's fossil fuels. And we're supposed to be the intelligent species here.

 

[sambotc]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Free energy that costs a lot of money to harvest though, personally I think what is more ridiculous is that we are decimating one of the earths natural resources that converts co2 into o2 without replacing them responsibly. Not to mention the other effects it has on wildlife etc

Just to add i'm not a greenpeace member or a tree hugger, just a realist

 

[Earthstore]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

I have said this before but here I go again...
The problem is money, lots of money, every time you fill up your van you give about £50 to the government, I do the same, look at all the cars, vans and lorries on the roads today, all giving their £50's to the government, so they can spend it wisely, by giving it to other countries, or the lazy sods that do not work, or build duck houses, or however they see fit, this also applies to the fuel in our houses and work places, so why would they really want us all producing free green energy?
What would all the lazy sods and ducks do without all this money?
it will happen though, and things are changing, it is just a shame that politics have to be involved because of the reasons above.
These are just my thoughts, but when you have to follow the politics almost daily, and you look at the wider picture, you do get a feel of what is really going on.

 

[dansk]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

At the end of the day the planet is screwed, i find installing solar a double edge sword, it saves carbon, but how much carbon is produced during manufacture and shipping half way around the globe.

 

[Earthstore]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

At the end of the day the planet is screwed, i find installing solar a double edge sword, it saves carbon, but how much carbon is produced during manufacture and shipping half way around the globe.

Said to be carbon neutral in 2-3years of service, not too sure how they calculate this, but that is what I have read.

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

At the end of the day the planet is screwed, i find installing solar a double edge sword, it saves carbon, but how much carbon is produced during manufacture and shipping half way around the globe.

energy return on investment should usually be in the 8-12:1 region, depending how long the solar stays up for it could be a lot higher than that.

It does depend quite a bit on how much diesel is used delivering and installing the kit, scaffolding etc, which is where local installs are a advantage.

 

[SolarCity]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Personally I hope that one day they'll be properly held to account for their inactivity on this issue, with punishment to fit the crime against humanity that they will have been shown to have perpetrated.

I don't think I've ever agreed with a point more on this forum than I do with this.

 

[Strima]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

The problem is that most western countries have reduced their emissions only to be taken over by far eastern countries such as India and China (other countries available), until they sort their acts out nothing will change.

 

[SolarCity]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

The problem is that most western countries have reduced their emissions only to be taken over by far eastern countries such as India and China (other countries available), until they sort their acts out nothing will change.

But not enough. Britain's effort has been utterly pathetic.

We can start worrying about India and China when we've sorted our own mess out.

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

The problem is that most western countries have reduced their emissions only to be taken over by far eastern countries such as India and China (other countries available), until they sort their acts out nothing will change.

more to the point that we've exported our emissions to china and india along with our heavy industry, ie a large percentage of china and india's emmissions stem from making stuff that they then export to us for us to consume.

This is all down to our politicians obsession with neoliberalist globalisation over the last 30 years, along with them actually being quite happy to destroy our industry and even happier to make it seem like we're doing good things to reduce our own emissions. Also, if the US had joined the kyoto agreement in the 90's, then the world would have been in a much better position to renogotiate it in the 2000's once China and Inidia's emissions had risen (as they were allowed to under kyoto).

FWIW, the only way the UK managed to achieve it's CO2 reduction target for 2010 (on top of exporting a lot of it) was via the massive recession of 2008. Without this we'd have missed our CO2 targets by a long way.

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

or to put it another way, if we weren't signatories to the WTO agreements, then we would have the option to influence the carbon emissions of those countries supplying goods to us by putting a carbon tax on high carbon imports or similar.

WTO bans any country from doing anything like that, the only thing that matters under WTO is free trade, and anything that gets in the way of free trade such as environmental or social concerns... well they just don't count, and governments will be fined severely if they do anything that might be seen as a restriction on free trade even if it's for well justified environmental reasons.

 

[Earthstore]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

What happened with the CRS (Carbon Reduction Scheme) if that was what it was called? Was it September 2011?
Where all large users of energy had to document their carbon footprint or they would get a large fine, then it was going to be rolled out to smaller businesses.

Not heard much of this recently...

 

[babba]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Thanks for the Big picture Gav. Great post on what is really important and does the greenes government EVER care do they fc uk.
BIG 6, BIG OIL are the real winners in the race to the end. Hope planet earth has enough sense to run out of natural resores as we call them ?.. because if shes waiting for man unkind to see the light, shes doomed

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

What happened with the CRS (Carbon Reduction Scheme) if that was what it was called? Was it September 2011?
Where all large users of energy had to document their carbon footprint or they would get a large fine, then it was going to be rolled out to smaller businesses.

Not heard much of this recently...

carbon reduction commitment?

the original scheme was actually quite good. It only applied to very big energy users, and was actually cost neutral over all, as IIRC it ranks all companies in order of their carbon reduction levels, the worst performers would then pay into the scheme, and the best performance would get paid from the scheme to reward them for their carbon saving efforts, so net financial impact on uk business would have been nil.

What actually happened was that DECC decided to steal the money from the scheme after a lot of companies had already spent a lot of money making improvements, so that now it's just a straight carbon tax on those worst performances, and the best performance just get to avoid some of that tax... net result a massive drain on UK business.

IIRC the CRC money basically was taken by decc and effectively went to fund the RHI scheme, and nuclear decommissioning authority budget increase.

Basically there seems to be nothing that DECC haven't completely cocked up, and if there is then we can be fairly sure they'll move on to cocking that right up as well just as soon as they can get round to it.

 

[Earthstore]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Thanks Gavin, CRC, I remembered after I had posted it.

They kept that quiet then, still, I guess that is politics.
This has been the first thing that i have done in my life that is run by politics, and it is truly rotton, (being polite there).

 

[dansk]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Thanks Gavin, CRC, I remembered after I had posted it.

They kept that quiet then, still, I guess that is politics.
This has been the first thing that i have done in my life that is run by politics, and it is truly rotton, (being polite there).

same here,

 

[UNG]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

So we had the technology to measure this 800,000 years ago

Our climate is affected by more than our own excesses not least the rest of the solar system

Climate change is just part of the evolution of the solar system and galaxy of which we are a part by reducing carbon emissions are we going to slow down the evolution of the rest of the solar system I think not

We have a number of planets some which have a moon or more all circling the sun at different speeds and in different orbits does any one know what happens when they roughly form a line to one side of the sun (not sure when this will happen) does something go bang

Back in the last ice age did some one get worried about global warming then, look how much it has warmed up from then or prior to the ice age was there panic because it was cooling down

Unfortunately we have no historic records to refer to prove anything at best climate change is based on 200 - 250 years of records not the complete history of this planet called Earth

This whole subject has evolved from global warming to climate change yet there is little mentioned about the rest of the solar system and it's part in our life apart from solar activity from the sun affecting communications here

This IMO is just another expensive inconclusive on going study that is costing millions and actually proving nothing other than we are heading to another big bang and a planet or solar system reset

 

[Earthstore]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

I would agree with most of what you have written, the Ice melted without the 4x4's and industry "warming up our planet".

But, there is always a but, do you think it is a good idea to keep digging up all the carbon, coal, oil and gas and then releasing it into the atmosphere?

It can not be helping the situation, and we do have viable alternatives that are now available to supply energy, but as I wrote in a previous post, it is all about money, lots of money..

 

[babba]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

So we had the technology to measure this 800,000 years ago

Our climate is affected by more than our own excesses not least the rest of the solar system

Climate change is just part of the evolution of the solar system and galaxy of which we are a part by reducing carbon emissions are we going to slow down the evolution of the rest of the solar system I think not

We have a number of planets some which have a moon or more all circling the sun at different speeds and in different orbits does any one know what happens when they roughly form a line to one side of the sun (not sure when this will happen) does something go bang

Back in the last ice age did some one get worried about global warming then, look how much it has warmed up from then or prior to the ice age was there panic because it was cooling down

Unfortunately we have no historic records to refer to prove anything at best climate change is based on 200 - 250 years of records not the complete history of this planet called Earth

This whole subject has evolved from global warming to climate change yet there is little mentioned about the rest of the solar system and it's part in our life apart from solar activity from the sun affecting communications here

This IMO is just another expensive inconclusive on going study that is costing millions and actually proving nothing other than we are heading to another big bang and a planet or solar system reset

So all the carbon we send out is having no effect in speeding things up ?

 

[babba]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Greenhouse effect (in a bottle) explained - YouTube

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

But not enough. Britain's effort has been utterly pathetic.

We can start worrying about India and China when we've sorted our own mess out.

I prefer Sean Lock's take on recycling & our countrys efforts- " like turning up to an earthquake with a dustpan & brush".

Surely its a better idea that the 5 billion (or so) in india, china, US , did their bit? I think then me washing out marmite jars will become fairly insignificant!!!

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

This IMO is just another expensive inconclusive on going study that is costing millions and actually proving nothing other than we are heading to another big bang and a planet or solar system reset

You've presumably studied the subject in depth before deciding the consensus opinions of those who've spent their lifetimes studying the subject in detail is wrong?

So we had the technology to measure this 800,000 years ago

unlikely, but if you were to take a huge core drill & drill a 3.2km core out of the deepest bits of the Antarctic ice sheets, then painstakingly analyse the minute air bubbles trapped in each years snow layers, you'd be able to accurately work out what the atmospheric CO2 concentration was 800,000 years ago.

Or rather you would if you were a scientist trained in that sort of thing and prepared to spend years working in Antarctica in the most extreme conditions on the planet to get this data only to find it then dismissed by numpties on the internet who know nothing about the subject.

Our climate is affected by more than our own excesses not least the rest of the solar system

yes, and solar output has decreased slightly since precise satellite measurements of the total solar irradiation reaching the outer atmosphere began 35 years ago, which categorically proves that it's not the sun what dunnit. In fact the reductions in solar output mean that they've actually helped mask the impact from the increased greenhouse gas concentrations.

Climate change is just part of the evolution of the solar system and galaxy of which we are a part by reducing carbon emissions are we going to slow down the evolution of the rest of the solar system I think not

come again?

We have a number of planets some which have a moon or more all circling the sun at different speeds and in different orbits does any one know what happens when they roughly form a line to one side of the sun (not sure when this will happen) does something go bang

brief eclipses of the sun on all the planets, probably hippies will bang on about it quite a bit, then nothing much else. What were you thinking might happen?

Back in the last ice age did some one get worried about global warming then, look how much it has warmed up from then or prior to the ice age was there panic because it was cooling down

I'd imagine many did get worried about it and rightly so, although there was nobody back then to predict it, and nothing they could do to prevent it.

It was responsible for the mass migration of a huge proportion of the human and animal population, likely caused the eventual demise of neanderthal man, led to most of northern Europe and America being uninhabitable for several millenia, then being rapidly repopulated once the ice started to thaw.

Unfortunately we have no historic records to refer to prove anything at best climate change is based on 200 - 250 years of records not the complete history of this planet called Earth

you might not, but the totality of science actually has a huge amount of data relating to the historic climate of the planet gathered from a wide variety of proxy sources.

This whole subject has evolved from global warming to climate change yet there is little mentioned about the rest of the solar system and it's part in our life apart from solar activity from the sun affecting communications here

The only reason for the process being mostly referred to as climate change as opposed to global warming is down to the perception that stemmed from the global warming name, that 'well we wouldn't mind it being a bit warmer in the UK anyway, so what's the problem'.

The name 'climate change' more accurately reflects the fact that it's not about some average level of warming across the globe, but about the huge and varied impacts this will have on all aspects of the climate all over the planet.

I've no idea what you're meaning when referring to the rest of the solar system tbh.

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

I prefer Sean Lock's take on recycling & our countrys efforts- " like turning up to an earthquake with a dustpan & brush".

Surely its a better idea that the 5 billion (or so) in india, china, US , did their bit? I think then me washing out marmite jars will become fairly insignificant!!!

but average consumption levels in India and China are already far lower than here, so why should they do their bit if you won't do yours?

 

[Guest111]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

said it before and i,ll say it again,this global warming is a part of a natural cycle it,s going to happen no matter what we do!The only thingthat does matter is not falling for all the crap spouted by the government,lets face it if it were possible to change things then it would be done without ripping everyone off.make it dearer to use non energy efficient products than green ones,but no they want to put everyone on a guilt trip and take more cash lets face it they tell us to use smaller cars and public transport or walk,well how come they send out 1 minister in a big v6 jag etc.Sorry if this offends anybody but I think that anyone who can,t see whats happening needs to look closer and anyone who falls for all this government clap trap should be locked up in a padded room.rant over!

 

[UNG]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

I would agree with most of what you have written, the Ice melted without the 4x4's and industry "warming up our planet".

But, there is always a but, do you think it is a good idea to keep digging up all the carbon, coal, oil and gas and then releasing it into the atmosphere?

It can not be helping the situation, and we do have viable alternatives that are now available to supply energy, but as I wrote in a previous post, it is all about money, lots of money..

Strange you don't mention the Toyota Prius about as unenvironmentally friendly as you can get

So all the carbon we send out is having no effect in speeding things up ?

Not sure it is

You've presumably studied the subject in depth before deciding the consensus opinions of those who've spent their lifetimes studying the subject in detail is wrong?


unlikely, but if you were to take a huge core drill & drill a 3.2km core out of the deepest bits of the Antarctic ice sheets, then painstakingly analyse the minute air bubbles trapped in each years snow layers, you'd be able to accurately work out what the atmospheric CO2 concentration was 800,000 years ago.

Or rather you would if you were a scientist trained in that sort of thing and prepared to spend years working in Antarctica in the most extreme conditions on the planet to get this data only to find it then dismissed by numpties on the internet who know nothing about the subject.


yes, and solar output has decreased slightly since precise satellite measurements of the total solar irradiation reaching the outer atmosphere began 35 years ago, which categorically proves that it's not the sun what dunnit. In fact the reductions in solar output mean that they've actually helped mask the impact from the increased greenhouse gas concentrations.

come again?

brief eclipses of the sun on all the planets, probably hippies will bang on about it quite a bit, then nothing much else. What were you thinking might happen?

I'd imagine many did get worried about it and rightly so, although there was nobody back then to predict it, and nothing they could do to prevent it.

It was responsible for the mass migration of a huge proportion of the human and animal population, likely caused the eventual demise of neanderthal man, led to most of northern Europe and America being uninhabitable for several millenia, then being rapidly repopulated once the ice started to thaw.


you might not, but the totality of science actually has a huge amount of data relating to the historic climate of the planet gathered from a wide variety of proxy sources.


The only reason for the process being mostly referred to as climate change as opposed to global warming is down to the perception that stemmed from the global warming name, that 'well we wouldn't mind it being a bit warmer in the UK anyway, so what's the problem'.

The name 'climate change' more accurately reflects the fact that it's not about some average level of warming across the globe, but about the huge and varied impacts this will have on all aspects of the climate all over the planet.

I've no idea what you're meaning when referring to the rest of the solar system tbh.

Your response is typical of what happens when someone casts doubt on climate change and doesn't warrant a response other than to object to the derogatory term used part way through which could be used against yourself

 

[Guest111]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

HERE HERE! nice one U N G no mention by our learned friend of the emminent scientist who had evidence to prove that global warming was a cyclical event and who was threatened with ruin by government bodies!

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Your response is typical of what happens when someone casts doubt on climate change and doesn't warrant a response other than to object to the derogatory term used part way through which could be used against yourself

and I suppose you had perfectly valid answers to my points as well.


eta for the record though, that was a generic reference to numpties on the internet who come up with this rubbish, not specifically to you personally. I can see why you might have thought I was referring to you mind.

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

said it before and i,ll say it again,this global warming is a part of a natural cycle it,s going to happen no matter what we do!The only thingthat does matter is not falling for all the crap spouted by the government,lets face it if it were possible to change things then it would be done without ripping everyone off.make it dearer to use non energy efficient products than green ones,but no they want to put everyone on a guilt trip and take more cash lets face it they tell us to use smaller cars and public transport or walk,well how come they send out 1 minister in a big v6 jag etc.Sorry if this offends anybody but I think that anyone who can,t see whats happening needs to look closer and anyone who falls for all this government clap trap should be locked up in a padded room.rant over!

so us adding approaching 40% to the atmospheric concentration of CO2 to the atmosphere from fossil reserves that have been trapped underground for hundreds of millions of years is just part of a natural cycle?

or is it the solar cycle that you're referring to? The solar cycle that's resulted in a reduction in solar output over the 35 years of satellite measurement at the same time as the earths temperatures have been rising?

 

[Earthstore]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

UNG, not sure why you mentioned a Toyota in reply to my post, my question was about releasing buried carbon, that was all.

 

[Earthstore]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

said it before and i,ll say it again,this global warming is a part of a natural cycle it,s going to happen no matter what we do!The only thingthat does matter is not falling for all the crap spouted by the government,lets face it if it were possible to change things then it would be done without ripping everyone off.make it dearer to use non energy efficient products than green ones,but no they want to put everyone on a guilt trip and take more cash lets face it they tell us to use smaller cars and public transport or walk,well how come they send out 1 minister in a big v6 jag etc.Sorry if this offends anybody but I think that anyone who can,t see whats happening needs to look closer and anyone who falls for all this government clap trap should be locked up in a padded room.rant over!

Phil, read post 7.

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

HERE HERE! nice one U N G no mention by our learned friend of the emminent scientist who had evidence to prove that global warming was a cyclical event and who was threatened with ruin by government bodies!

It's a bit hard to respond to that without knowing who or what you're talking about.

I'll respond in general though to say that arguments about a conspiracy or cover up, or refusal to publish contrary results actually fall flat on their face when someone actually puts them to the test, as happened when a BBC correspondent publicly requested any researchers who've had such papers rejected to contact him with evidence of this.

Of the three papers I did receive, one was far from complete, and another was a review article from an author who endorsed the IPCC position and said the bias was against scientists "supporting man-made climate change".

The third was from Reid Bryson, a US meteorologist and climatologist whose team at the University of Wisconsin has developed its own method of looking at historical climate change.
He said he had had problems getting research published on the extent to which he believes volcanoes drive climate change.
But he had not kept his rejection letters, so it was impossible to investigate specifically.

[bbc]

So when it comes down to it, the reason there's very little in the way of evidence against anthropogenic climate change in the published science doesn't seem to have much if anything to do with any sort of bias, or threats (unless you're saying this guy was so scared he wouldn't even respond to the BBC).

 

[UNG]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

eta for the record though, that was a generic reference to numpties on the internet who come up with this rubbish, not specifically to you personally. I can see why you might have thought I was referring to you mind.

I did not take it as a reference only to myself to deride any objector as a numpty just because they don't agree with your science is derogatory and shows that your only response to their view is to call them names

UNG, not sure why you mentioned a Toyota in reply to my post, my question was about releasing buried carbon, that was all.

Apologies misread your post was highlighting how ungreen a Prius is

It's a bit hard to respond to that without knowing who or what you're talking about.

I'll respond in general though to say that arguments about a conspiracy or cover up, or refusal to publish contrary results actually fall flat on their face when someone actually puts them to the test, as happened when a BBC correspondent publicly requested any researchers who've had such papers rejected to contact him with evidence of this.


[bbc]

So when it comes down to it, the reason there's very little in the way of evidence against anthropogenic climate change in the published science doesn't seem to have much if anything to do with any sort of bias, or threats (unless you're saying this guy was so scared he wouldn't even respond to the BBC).

Somebody cast doubt on WMD and was found with his wrists slashed need any more be said

If it was found it was the crock of ???? it is it would mean one or two less holidays for the government leaders every year

 

[Earthstore]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Apology accepted, so what about my question
should we keep digging up all this carbon and release it into the atmosphere ?

 

[UNG]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Apology accepted, so what about my question
should we keep digging up all this carbon and release it into the atmosphere ?

Is it doing the damage it is claimed to be doing but then what is the alternative can any thing be truly carbon neutral?

Unless we have a radical change and return to a time before all the modern conveniences we are all used to like the car, global travel and the plethora of electrical items we all have then I think we are stuck with a carbon economy as most if not all things have a carbon content including ourselves

 

[Earthstore]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Well I do not know if it is doing the damage that is claimed, it all depends on who is claiming I would think.
but my thoughts are it can not be helping, well can it?

I do except that we have all got used to these comforts, the problem is the revenue that is raised through taxes is now relied on,(and wasted), there are many other options available, but they would stop all this revenue, it is not what may be better for the environment.

If I could offer you a way to heat your home, run your TV, boil your kettle, and transport you and yours around the roads with no running costs, would you be interested?

Do you think the oil companies and governments would welcome such a thing?

Over the last few years I have been researching alternatives, and it is amazing what has been achieved, but it is not allowed into the public domain.

Politics......

 

[babba]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Money talks and planet earth has no cash, we can live without cash but I think we need the planet.

 

[UNG]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Over the last few years I have been researching alternatives, and it is amazing what has been achieved, but it is not allowed into the public domain.

Politics......

The rotary ----el engine is a prime example although used in some applications if it became the engine of choice it would have put many people out of work as it needed a lot less parts

About 11 years ago a company in Runcorn called Silent Power closed down they had developed quite advanced traction batteries at the time that were about to come to market and the US government were going to bring in legislation which would have helped but lobbying by the oil companies stopped this happening and the batteries went into storage and the manufacturing and development plant was closed otherwise we may have had battery powered vehicles years ago

Again the alternatives throw up their own problems with the mining of the raw materials and their transport and processing to get the finished product. There is certainly a catch 22 situation or do we have to inhabit other planets or moons to get the materials we need to support the earths infrastructure for future generations

But then does our planet and even the solar system it is in have a finite life and is this just part of a cycle that lasts X thousand or million years before it implodes and starts all over again to replenish itself

 

[Earthstore]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

NSU RO 80, used the ----el, also Mazda in the rx5 then the more successful rx7, and even today in the rx8, the reason that it is not mainstream is reliability as the tips wear so the engine has a short service life, but I am very aware of the ----el engine and how it works.

If what you say is true about the firm in Runcorn, which I have no reason to doubt you, this type of practice is common place, and it backs up my opinion that it is all about money, lots of money.

I feel though that things will change soon, there are thousands of people worldwide working on different technologies, from old boys in garden sheds, through to big industries, I am aware there are many fake ideas too, but some are good and will work.

Back to my point of digging up all this carbon and releasing it into the atmosphere, maybe global warming is a natural process, but do we really need to speed it up?

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Somebody cast doubt on WMD and was found with his wrists slashed need any more be said

If it was found it was the crock of ???? it is it would mean one or two less holidays for the government leaders every year

if this is the level of your logic and understanding of the situation, I refer you to my previous comment.

 

[UNG]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

if this is the level of your logic and understanding of the situation, I refer you to my previous comment.

With your earlier comment I will not respond to you, you have done what all greens do and resorted to name calling as your defence people who do not agree with your science are not NUMPTIES the same as my Land Rover is "not the bad choice of vehicle" the greens will have you believe compared to a Prius but the greens will have you believe it.

Having found your level it is no different to any of the other Eco friendly greens

 

[Gavin A]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

With your earlier comment I will not respond to you, you have done what all greens do and resorted to name calling as your defence people who do not agree with your science are not NUMPTIES the same as my Land Rover is "not the bad choice of vehicle" the greens will have you believe compared to a Prius but the greens will have you believe it.

Having found your level it is no different to any of the other Eco friendly greens

You've already failed to respond to a single point I've made with anything other than irrelevant nonsense, presumably because you can't, so I don't see that as a particular loss to the thread. Also, given the combative, dismissive way you entered and carried on in this thread, its quite funny that you have such thin skin - it's almost as if you were deliberately looking to provoke this sort of reaction just so you could then cry foul.

In case you missed it, I've rebutted every point you've made - if you actually took your blinkers off you might learn something. I've never had a problem with people who don't know much about the subject asking questions, just with people who clearly know very little about the subject coming along and shouting the odds.

BTW, when you're talking about conspiracies in this area, you might want to look at the fact that you're on the side that is led and mostly funded by big oil lobbiest groups, that despite 25 years of their funding they've failed to find a single scrap of credible evidence to refute the central Anthropogenic Global Warming hypothesis, and have instead resorted to a decades long campaign of harassment, intimidation of the scientists involved, and public disinformation to spread the idea of doubt and uncertainty in the public mindset where none current exists.

Maybe you should ask yourself why it is that the oil industry hardly funds any research in the field at all, but instead puts virtually all the money it spends into PR and lobbiest organisations... including a lot of the same ones that spent 4 decades attempting to deny the link between smoking and cancer on behalf of the tobacco lobby. This isn't conspiracy theory btw,its conspiracy fact.

 

[SolarCity]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

I prefer Sean Lock's take on recycling & our countrys efforts- " like turning up to an earthquake with a dustpan & brush".

Surely its a better idea that the 5 billion (or so) in india, china, US , did their bit? I think then me washing out marmite jars will become fairly insignificant!!!

Maybe so. But if Britain does turn up with its dustpan and brush then at least we can look around and ask why India, China and US aren't doing the same.

 

[dougalthedog]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Does anyone have any hard figures on how much carbon goes into the manufacture / delivery to the UK of any specific solar panel / inverter? It would be interesting to get some accurate figures for the embodied carbon of a typical 4kW install - presumably we could work out our own carbon footprint for the installation part.

I've heard figures banded about for the carbon payback of solar of between 2 & 20 years but nobody seems to be able to back it up with any figures!

 

[sambotc]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

I'm sure i've read the the UK accounts for 0.6% of the worlds carbon emissions? So the dustpan and brush statement is very true. That said we should be more interested in future proofing ourselves even if the carbon saving doesn't add up, we are running out of fuel and having to go to ridiculous and dangerous places to extract it now. Also being less reliant on big energy companies comes high up on the list in my opinion.

 

[SolarCity]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

About 11 years ago a company in Runcorn called Silent Power closed down they had developed quite advanced traction batteries at the time that were about to come to market and the US government were going to bring in legislation which would have helped but lobbying by the oil companies stopped this happening and the batteries went into storage and the manufacturing and development plant was closed otherwise we may have had battery powered vehicles years ago

Lobbying by oil companies in which country? Surely there is more to it than "This would stop BP selling so much oil........?"

But then does our planet and even the solar system it is in have a finite life and is this just part of a cycle that lasts X thousand or million years before it implodes and starts all over again to replenish itself

Life has been on this planet for 2 billion years. Modern man has been on this planet for around 100-250 thousand years - a blink of the eye in evolutionary terms. Evidence suggests that we are having a huge impact on the Earth's environment and we have only been burning fossil fuels at a large scale for the last 200 or so years.

It may well be the case that this global warming would be occurring anyway and that our activity is having zero impact. Even so, surely when you consider what is at stake it would make sense to act as if we ARE causing this problem and that we CAN solve it. Considering what it at stake I am truly staggered that anyone can take the contrary view.

 

[MorganPVI]

Re: CO2 concentrations break through the 400ppm barrier for first time in 800,000 yea

Some of the denial in this thread is worthy of an Egyptian, ( Da Nile (river) as some posters may not have the inteligence to make the connection)

I'm sorry to say that I hold ZERO hope of reducing carbon emmissions without the total collapse of civilization as we know it. The way in which the world currently operates needs cheap energy to run GDP, without cheap oil there is no growth and therefore no GDP - nothing less than the total collapse of the world as we know it will do it, unless of course the USA, China and India slash emmisions (they will not because emmisions = GDP)

Sadly the way the world is set up requires cheap energy, no rational leadership would risk their place in the world order by placing the current and future posperity of their people before the needs of the Earth.

As a final note - any person thinking that the rise in C02 is a natural cycle MUST also think that the Sun orbits the Earth.
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