Consumer unit query

[tiburon]

My parents have been having trouble with their electrics recently. They had their house refurbished a year and a half ago and discovered some pretty awful DIY wiring from the previous owner so had a significant portion of the house rewired as part of the work. Despite this, they have been having problems. It's possible the issues have nothing to do with the wiring but they want to get it checked and they've asked me to call some electricians to see if they can come and take a look. When I call, they are asking me questions about the consumer unit and unfortunately it doesn't look like the one I have in my house so I'm struggling to explain anything to them.

In my consumer unit, there are two sets of MCBs with two RCDs and I expected something similar with theirs. Electricians are asking about the RCDs on my parents' unit and testing them but I can't see any. Each of the MCBs has an individual "test regularly" button but no specific RCD. It's proving hard to get an electrician out without being able to explain the situation to them clearly so any help would be greatly appreciated. In the image, the MCB on the left that is tripped/off is for the dishwasher, though everything else in the kitchen seems to be working fine apart from a faulty socket in the utility area (double socket with only one socket not working). The last one on the right before the mains breaker that is also off is unlabelled on the unit and is brown. Is that the RCD and it's just that the test button is on each individual MCB?

In case it's relevant, the current issue they're having is that the dishwasher keeps tripping plus one of the sockets in their utility area isn't working (double socket but only one side not working). The the side that's not working now cannot be switched off as the switch is stuck solidly in the on position (assume it has short-circuited but no idea why). I have explained to my parents that it's possible there is an issue within their dishwasher plus a faulty face plate on their socket and that it has nothing to do with the wiring and the two are not related.

Also worth noting that I will, of course,100% not be attempting any work on the consumer unit myself and will leave that to the professionals.

 

[Avo Mk8]

I'll leave the professionals to answer, but the reason you may not recognise what you're seeing is it's a recent board, and I believe they are all RCBO's (except for the surge protection bits). Also you may well be right that the problem is actually the dishwasher - can easily be checked.

 

[tiburon]

I'll leave the professionals to answer, but the reason you may not recognise what you're seeing is it's a recent board, and I believe they are all RCBO's (except for the surge protection bits). Also you may well be right that the problem is actually the dishwasher - can easily be checked.

Aha, I've just had a Google because this is new to me and it looks like you're right - thanks for your help. At least I will be able to explain that bit.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Aha, I've just had a Google because this is new to me and it looks like you're right - thanks for your help. At least I will be able to explain that bit.

And the other issue of half a twin socket not working is a faulty accessory, which can be easily replaced. Doesn't necessarily mean there's been an electrical problem - I've had foreign matter jamming up a switch, and also bits sometimes just break!

Also a comment about the dishwasher - it it comes on OK, and fills with water, but trips the breaker when the heating element comes on to heat the water inside, almost certain it needs a new element (which in my limited experience can be the most difficult part to replace!)
Actually thinking about this, with RCBO's it might trip the power straight away if the element is leaky N to E?

 

[tiburon]

And the other issue of half a twin socket not working is a faulty accessory, which can be easily replaced. Doesn't necessarily mean there's been an electrical problem - I've had foreign matter jamming up a switch, and also bits sometimes just break!

Cheers. Yes, I think most likely these are two separate issues that have nothing to do with the electrics. Possibly just something wrong within the dishwasher itself and just need to change the face plate on the plug.

 

[James]

Tell the electrician that it is a fair new board, all RCBO’s
you have a faulty double socket that works one side but not the other

in most cases I would expect an easy job, 1 hour at most.
it would be a good idea to change the plug on dishwasher as a precaution and do a quick test of earth continuity and insulation resistance of the appliance.

 

[Pete999]

My parents have been having trouble with their electrics recently. They had their house refurbished a year and a half ago and discovered some pretty awful DIY wiring from the previous owner so had a significant portion of the house rewired as part of the work. Despite this, they have been having problems. It's possible the issues have nothing to do with the wiring but they want to get it checked and they've asked me to call some electricians to see if they can come and take a look. When I call, they are asking me questions about the consumer unit and unfortunately it doesn't look like the one I have in my house so I'm struggling to explain anything to them.

In my consumer unit, there are two sets of MCBs with two RCDs and I expected something similar with theirs. Electricians are asking about the RCDs on my parents' unit and testing them but I can't see any. Each of the MCBs has an individual "test regularly" button but no specific RCD. It's proving hard to get an electrician out without being able to explain the situation to them clearly so any help would be greatly appreciated. In the image, the MCB on the left that is tripped/off is for the dishwasher, though everything else in the kitchen seems to be working fine apart from a faulty socket in the utility area (double socket with only one socket not working). The last one on the right before the mains breaker that is also off is unlabelled on the unit and is brown. Is that the RCD and it's just that the test button is on each individual MCB?

In case it's relevant, the current issue they're having is that the dishwasher keeps tripping plus one of the sockets in their utility area isn't working (double socket but only one side not working). The the side that's not working now cannot be switched off as the switch is stuck solidly in the on position (assume it has short-circuited but no idea why). I have explained to my parents that it's possible there is an issue within their dishwasher plus a faulty face plate on their socket and that it has nothing to do with the wiring and the two are not related.

Also worth noting that I will, of course,100% not be attempting any work on the consumer unit myself and will leave that to the professionals.

View attachment 65637

As far as I can tell the CU in the picture A MAINS SWITCH FAR RIGHT, and THE REST OF THE UNITS LOOK LIKE RCBOs.
From what you are saying the Electricians you have contacted are asking if there has been any testing carried, and do you have any paperwork to correspond with this testing.
The Electrician may also be asking has there been an EICR Electrical Installation Condition Report done recently.
It would be an excellent idea to get an EICR done to highlight any electrical issues present in the house, not cheap, say a couple of hundred pounds depending on the financial situation in your area. post the address of the property in question, there maybe a Forum Member near you who could help and advise you of the options open to you.
Good luck
Pete999

 

[telectrix]

Aha, I've just had a Google because this is new to me and it looks like you're right - thanks for your help. At least I will be able to explain that bit.

that's what we call an all RCBO board. yours sounds like a dual RCD unit. RCBOs are breakers combined with RCDs so that each circuit has it's own RCD. tripping of 1 RCBO only kills the 1 circuit, it does not affect other circuits. it's the way most new board installs are going at tne moment because losing 4/5 circuits due to a RCD trip is not ideal. some members in NI possibly be able to sort out the problem for you.

for now, try getting them to unplug the dishwasher and then see if it's still tripping.

 

[tiburon]

Thanks for all your help!

 

[Mike Johnson]

Wonder why there is one MCB in that board?

Note to OP the yellow button at the top of the eight units marked T is a Test button and should be operated every six months (not sure about NI requirements) to test the breaker, if the breaker does not trip or if it will not reset after tripping you need to consult an electrician.

 

[telectrix]

just out of interest. the MCB that's off, just next to the main switch, is not RCD protected. i would imagine it would feed an outbuilding which would have RCD "mini" CU there. maybe incomplete as yet. only guessing mind.

 

[telectrix]

Wonder why there is one MCB in that board?

Note to OP the yellow button at the top of the eight units marked T is a Test button and should be operated every six months (not sure about NI requirements) to test the breaker, if the breaker does not trip or if it will not reset after tripping you need to consult an electrician.

and it's a type C. must be some reason here. is it for his mum's cannabis farm? new cottage industry to help with pension? ??

 

[tiburon]

just out of interest. the MCB that's off, just next to the main switch, is not RCD protected. i would imagine it would feed an outbuilding which would have RCD "mini" CU there. maybe incomplete as yet. only guessing mind.

Interesting. You could be right about the cannabis farm haha. There was an extension done on the other end of the house about 20 years ago with a room and en-suite that runs off a separate fuse box. Would that explain it? They also put the boiler down there beside it when they changed it from oil to gas - I'm guessing the fact that it's down suggests there is no power going to the other box.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The fact that it's down means there is no power to that circuit, not necessarily the extension, if the boiler is still working and it feeds off the separate fuse box, then that MCB does not supply the extension, but this all assumes the extension fuse box feeds the circuits in the extension, suggest you get an electrician to have a look and perhaps get an EICR done, assuming your parents don't have one already and have forgotten, sniffing weed can do that. My emoji's have stopped working.

 

[tiburon]

The fact that it's down means there is no power to that circuit, not necessarily the extension, if the boiler is still working and it feeds off the separate fuse box, then that MCB does not supply the extension, but this all assumes the extension fuse box feeds the circuits in the extension, suggest you get an electrician to have a look and perhaps get an EICR done, assuming your parents don't have one already and have forgotten, sniffing weed can do that. My emoji's have stopped working.

Just checked with her and the extension has power so no idea what it feeds as nothing else seems to be off. I will get someone to come and have a look. At least I know what terminology to use on the phone now as I was disgracing myself previously haha. I will also see about the EICR. I'd imagine since the rewiring was only done a year ago everything that should have been done would have been done then but can check.

 

[Mike Johnson]

When the board was changed the electrician who did the work should have checked all the things necessary to fill out an EICR, completed and given to your parents, I would get in touch with the electrician that carried out the work and ask for the document.

 

[telectrix]

that work done a year ago should have been a EIC (installation certigicate) provided, covering extent of works and a schedule of test results for every circuit. the new board looks good from what we can see.but why are there no circuit descriptors and the usual warning labels not fitted. i'd love to see inside there with the cover off (obviously after isolating the main switch (or upfront isolator if there is one)).

 

[Mike Johnson]

Labels could be under the lifted lid?

 

[Avo Mk8]

The Contactum SPD upgrade kit comes with a breaker just like the one that's off, so it might be in the SPD circuit, and it is close to it? In which case the switch should be 'on'.
If you get an electrician in, ask them to confirm if this is the case, and if so leave it on.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Could well be the supply to the SPD, but without any inspection certification or labels is impossible to tell without taking the front off the CU, which I would not advise the OP to do.

 

[tiburon]

that work done a year ago should have been a EIC (installation certigicate) provided, covering extent of works and a schedule of test results for every circuit. the new board looks good from what we can see.but why are there no circuit descriptors and the usual warning labels not fitted. i'd love to see inside there with the cover off (obviously after isolating the main switch (or upfront isolator if there is one)).

Labels could be under the lifted lid?

Yes, to clarify, there are labels above the lid. They are labelled 1-8. Number 4, which is down, is labelled dishwasher, kitchen and utility sockets, although all the sockets (apart from the faulty one described previously) are working so I think I will get them to check over the labelling, too. That circuit is off and effectively it's only the dishwasher that has no power.

 

[tiburon]

The Contactum SPD upgrade kit comes with a breaker just like the one that's off, so it might be in the SPD circuit, and it is close to it? In which case the switch should be 'on'.
If you get an electrician in, ask them to confirm if this is the case, and if so leave it on.

Cheers for this. SPD circuit is a bit past the extent of my knowledge but at least I have an idea of what that one might be, even if I don't understand what it does!

And, to confirm, that one isn't labelled.

 

[Risteard]

Wonder why there is one MCB in that board?

Note to OP the yellow button at the top of the eight units marked T is a Test button and should be operated every six months (not sure about NI requirements) to test the breaker, if the breaker does not trip or if it will not reset after tripping you need to consult an electrician.

It's (circuit breaker) protecting the SPD.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The SPD is the surge protection unit at the far right of the board.

Having the RCBO circuit description labels under the lid is a bit useless, but the labels we where referring too are "Important" labels with various wordings for instructions and a label saying when the next inspection should be carried out, something like those shown below.

 

[tiburon]

The SPD is the surge protection unit at the far right of the board.

Having the RCBO circuit description labels under the lid is a bit useless, but the labels we where referring too are "Important" labels with various wordings for instructions and a label saying when the next inspection should be carried out, something like that shown below.

Cheers. If that last MCB is for the SPD, I'm guessing it should be on. It was off/tripped for the first time yesterday so perhaps that narrows down their issue to something to do with it. Nobody in the house would have actively turned it off.

 

[pc1966]

Cheers. If that last MCB is for the SPD, I'm guessing it should be on. It was off/tripped for the first time yesterday so perhaps that narrows down their issue to something to do with it. Nobody in the house would have actively turned it off.

Yes, it should normally be on, but no one will notice it being off unless there is a surge and equipment is damaged that otherwise might have been protected.

It is unusual for the MCB feeding a SPD to trip. While it might indict some other fault (e,g, problem with the SPD, some dumb wiring fault in the CU) it could also be signs of lightning nearby and the SPD doing its job of diverting it, but at this time of year I would be very surprised if it was!

More likely turned off for some testing and not restored.

 

[tiburon]

Yes, it should normally be on, but no one will notice it being off unless there is a surge and equipment is damaged that otherwise might have been protected.

It is unusual for the MCB feeding a SPD to trip. While it might indict some other fault (e,g, problem with the SPD, some dumb wiring fault in the CU)) it could also be signs of lightning nearby and the SPD doing its job of diverting it, but at this time of year I would be very surprised if it was!

Cheers. I will have them take a look. I had it in my head that it could have had something to do with the socket switch and maybe a short circuit in it or the problem with the dishwasher (it was tripping from time to time but then it wouldn't turn on at all yesterday), which probably sounds ridiculous to a professional! I'm going to try and get the guys who did the rewire to come back and check it over. I'm only sorting it because, while I'm pretty clueless, my mother is much worse.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Normally on an SPD there is a light that changes colour if it has been hit by a surge.

 

[Risteard]

Normally on an SPD there is a light that changes colour if it has been hit by a surge.

An indicator but not a light. Just a flag.