in defence of the time served spark

[MDJ]

We are getting a lot of stick from short course guys at the moment telling us we are miserable old gits and part of an old boys club. I would like to apologise for taking 4 and a half years to become an electrician on block release at college and with on site training, to add also with a further 2 years under supervision to get approved status which then meant we could work alone. I appreciate times have changed and we are out of date and past it, taking 6 and a half years to get approved which is possible in 5 weeks today seems a little silly I know, we are living in yesterday years, we only know about things that today would not be seen much due to the invention of twin and earth and part pee building control regs and apologies again to the short course takers. We are not a bad bunch even if our old city and guild qualifcations are considered to be laughable in todays high tech exam courses. It wasn't our fault the Achievment mesurement and city and guilds were around back then, apologies for being out of date and out of touch, we may be past it but we did have it once and may still be able to work on Domestic properties today with further training.

Profound apologies from us the older generation who didn't do Modern short courses .

 

[Guest55]

i'm sick of hearing about these fully qualified guys !

who do they think they are ?

what with all their knowledge , practical skills and fault finding experience , they deserve to be burnt at the stake !!

oh , wait.........

;-)

 

[Simonslimline]

I feel even the the apprenticeship route at college still does not teach you all you need to know.

I have learnt alot on this site that has not been covered at college 2357C&G .

 

[Badged01]

One of the electrical industrys proudest achievements has been the introduction of Part "P" back in 2005. Since then electrical related deaths have gone down, electrical fires have gone down as competency standards have improved. And to think Part "P" was originally opposed by the older generation electricians at first!.

Before Part "P" youngsters leaving school faced 4 year apprenticeships and earned poor wages before they could be entitled to being know as tradesmen. Now our youngsters can go on any of the excellent 5 week installer courses run across the country and setup their own businesses straight away after passing. I dont think another professions can be proud to boast this achievement and all for less than £5K. They can then earn good cash and feel pride in doing a good job for people who need professional services.

Part "P" also gives a controlled environment where only those qualified can work, increasing job opportunities and adding greater profit margins to turnover. Gone are the cowboys as without Part "P" any old fly-by-night plumber or kitchen fitter would be able to do electrical work without any qualifications.

 

[2na]

I will only give jobs to apprentice trained guys, and if they want to do apprenticeships, they have to take the long route.

We have a great time laughing at the 5 week idiots stumbling through an order at the wholesalers.

 

[telectrix]

burnt... steak.... bloody philistine.... steaks should be rare to medium rare.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

We are getting a lot of stick from short course guys at the moment telling us we are miserable old gits and part of an old boys club. I would like to apologise for taking 4 and a half years to become an electrician on block release at college and with on site training, to add also with a further 2 years under supervision to get approved status which then meant we could work alone. I appreciate times have changed and we are out of date and past it, taking 6 and a half years to get approved which is possible in 5 weeks today seems a little silly I know, we are living in yesterday years, we only know about things that today would not be seen much due to the invention of twin and earth and part pee building control regs and apologies again to the short course takers. We are not a bad bunch even if our old city and guild qualifcations are considered to be laughable in todays high tech exam courses. It wasn't our fault the Achievment mesurement and city and guilds were around back then, apologies for being out of date and out of touch, we may be past it but we did have it once and may still be able to work on Domestic properties today with further training.

Profound apologies from us the older generation who didn't do Modern short courses .

Miserable old git...

 

[imago]

I will only give jobs to apprentice trained guys, and if they want to do apprenticeships, they have to take the long route.

I can understand your reasoning for that, but it's going to become increasingly difficult to do as time passes.

I would guess (I stand to be corrected if anyone has figures to prove otherwise) that the 1980s was the last decade where apprentices were trained in any significant numbers. Since then it has been an ever decreasing number, so eventually the apprentice trained electricians are going to be very few and far between.

The likelihood of getting a job in a skilled trade that lasts four to six years is very slim these days, never mind finding a company that will stand the many thousands it will cost to train an apprentice.

 

[7029 dave]

We are getting a lot of stick from short course guys at the moment telling us we are miserable old gits and part of an old boys club. I would like to apologise for taking 4 and a half years to become an electrician on block release at college and with on site training, to add also with a further 2 years under supervision to get approved status which then meant we could work alone. I appreciate times have changed and we are out of date and past it, taking 6 and a half years to get approved which is possible in 5 weeks today seems a little silly I know, we are living in yesterday years, we only know about things that today would not be seen much due to the invention of twin and earth and part pee building control regs and apologies again to the short course takers. We are not a bad bunch even if our old city and guild qualifcations are considered to be laughable in todays high tech exam courses. It wasn't our fault the Achievment mesurement and city and guilds were around back then, apologies for being out of date and out of touch, we may be past it but we did have it once and may still be able to work on Domestic properties today with further training.

Profound apologies from us the older generation who didn't do Modern short courses .

Mike, I could not have put that over any better, hooray to you, times have moved on, BUT what it is, is what it is!!!. I am proud to have the C&G 236, 3 years at college day release (didn't do C course), further 2years as improver to gain approved. This new breed is of a different generation, not their fault, and I have meet some bloody good one's, also a few rough old badgers too of our era, maybe we are grumpy old gits? I don't care and will never change my work ethic.!!

 

[2na]

I can understand your reasoning for that, but it's going to become increasingly difficult to do as time passes.

I would guess (I stand to be corrected if anyone has figures to prove otherwise) that the 1980s was the last decade where apprentices were trained in any significant numbers. Since then it has been an ever decreasing number, so eventually the apprentice trained electricians are going to be very few and far between.

The likelihood of getting a job in a skilled trade that lasts four to six years is very slim these days, never mind finding a company that will stand the many thousands it will cost to train an apprentice.

But there isn't really any other of learning. I wont pay someone as a spark until they can prove they know enough that they won't endanger people.

That's whats wrong with this industry, if you train in 5 weeks you will be happy to get paid crap money, but my guys want more because they have put in the effort and I think they deserve it.

Deskilling to fill the gaps is just a stupid way forward and it will eventually ruin this industry.

 

[Pete999]

One of the electrical industrys proudest achievements has been the introduction of Part "P" back in 2005. Since then electrical related deaths have gone down, electrical fires have gone down as competency standards have improved. And to think Part "P" was originally opposed by the older generation electricians at first!.

Before Part "P" youngsters leaving school faced 4 year apprenticeships and earned poor wages before they could be entitled to being know as tradesmen. Now our youngsters can go on any of the excellent 5 week installer courses run across the country and setup their own businesses straight away after passing. I dont think another professions can be proud to boast this achievement and all for less than £5K. They can then earn good cash and feel pride in doing a good job for people who need professional services.

Part "P" also gives a controlled environment where only those qualified can work, increasing job opportunities and adding greater profit margins to turnover. Gone are the cowboys as without Part "P" any old fly-by-night plumber or kitchen fitter would be able to do electrical work without any qualifications.

Badged01, I don't know if your post was meant to be tongue in cheek, but pretty sure it wasn't, if it wasn't then sorry Part P is the biggest load of old carp, some of the idiots, and that's being kind who boast about being Part P qualified ought to be prosecuted, I had a kitchen fitted a few years back by a reputable company, bearing in mind I'm nearly 70 and not as agile as I once was, this guy came and started to move the electrics, I had to stop him, "crimp the RFC and plaster over it, not on my watch matey. They weer Part P, new gas boiler by BG came and fitted OK until I asked for mnw cert for the addition of a fcu, the clown didn't know what a MNW cert was and that was BG. Come on mate Part P Part carp more likely, no offense meant just saying that's all.

 

[MDJ]

Badged01, I don't know if your post was meant to be tongue in cheek, but pretty sure it wasn't, if it wasn't then sorry Part P is the biggest load of old carp, some of the idiots, and that's being kind who boast about being Part P qualified ought to be prosecuted, I had a kitchen fitted a few years back by a reputable company, bearing in mind I'm nearly 70 and not as agile as I once was, this guy came and started to move the electrics, I had to stop him, "crimp the RFC and plaster over it, not on my watch matey. They weer Part P, new gas boiler by BG came and fitted OK until I asked for mnw cert for the addition of a fcu, the clown didn't know what a MNW cert was and that was BG. Come on mate Part P Part carp more likely, no offense meant just saying that's all.

it was tongue in cheek, badge is a very sarcastic fella, I like his humour lol

 

[2na]

And when I say ruin, I mean it will be filled with cheap under qualified idiots doing the job we gave up years to learn.

That means less money, less pride in our workmanship, and opens the doors to foreigners that cant speak a word of english charging £50 per day for 12 hours work. YOU CANT LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY ON £50 PER DAY. We should expect more and we deserve more.

Sweden is a great example of this. You need to go to college for 5 years, and then work as an electrician for 10 years, then do a 2 year business course before you can open an electrical business. They get paid loads, and are very respected. That is what this country should aim for, whether you lot like it or not. People can die or their house burn down through something very simple, electrics should not be taken lightly.

 

[Knobhead]

Miserable old git...

You know my views on Electrical Trainee’s and competence.

Look in a mirror.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

burnt... steak.... bloody philistine.... steaks should be rare to medium rare.

You've just reminded me what you said when I asked what you wanted for lunch


"anything with meat in it"

 

[7029 dave]

IMO, I think early 1980's and generations before had best times out of this industry,!! geez all them yesterdays lol, bet it was a mare though working in the early 70's with that copper crisis, all that ali yuk.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

And when I say ruin, I mean it will be filled with cheap under qualified idiots doing the job we gave up years to learn.

That means less money, less pride in our workmanship, and opens the doors to foreigners that cant speak a word of english charging £50 per day for 12 hours work. YOU CANT LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY ON £50 PER DAY. We should expect more and we deserve more.

Sweden is a great example of this. You need to go to college for 5 years, and then work as an electrician for 10 years, then do a 2 year business course before you can open an electrical business. They get paid loads, and are very respected. That is what this country should aim for, whether you lot like it or not. People can die or their house burn down through something very simple, electrics should not be taken lightly.

Good post.

 

[egg67]

Part P is a good thing with it you can sum up all we do in 22 pages ishh, and it has given some training people the charge to make a new course that thay can get lots money for, as for all us plebs that have spent 3 to 5 years learning think we must have wasted time, now days you can do a 5 week thing that will teach you all you need to know and then go out to big wold have a little problem then post on here get answers go back in a few days and try to fix it, TIME served man would have fixed it before he left the first time as he has been trained in fault finding, spent years fixing cable to walls(before he or she was aloud to look at a CU) and was shown to run cables in a real house not a unit that has wood walls and is made for banging up to impress to the people you are paying £5000, to make you compertnot and want to be able to put on there website that they have a 99% pass rate

 

[Lagentium]

I have no problem with the lads doing a five day course aslong as they stick to what they know and do it well, people have to earn money for their families and it's a way of doing so. I've seen some electricians mate whose work make the sparks they are working with look daft also. I think you never stop learning and somebody who is closed to a learning environment is no good at all. Having said that I haven't grafted my nuts off since leaving school and going to college for foreign labour to drive down my own worth, as I know what I'm worth!! I get slightly frustrated when I drive by a large project that is ongoing down the road from me and see all the European number plates in the car park.

 

[egg67]

that it, part P, 17 ed you read read it you do it, then let someone fix it that knows what thay are doing