Discuss Long time no post, but thought youd like this one in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

GBDamo

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This is quite lengthy so get comfy...

I had a bizarre call out relating to a job I attended about five years ago. The situation was they were getting regular short term low voltages across all phases, only a few seconds, but enough to make lights flicker.

In the intervening years they had done precisely nothing.

This is a corporate HQ with data centre covering 5-600 remote locations. If the servers go down they lose half a million a day. This I a multi billion pound outfit.

Anyhow I get a call out to reattend this issue as now the voltage drops are dipping bellow 180V and PCs and such are shutting down, servers are bouncing on and off UPSs and the whole senior management are running round like Micheal Jackson in a Pepsi advert.

On arrival I find that a back up generator had been installed overnight and the DNO were drilling and sniffing for a cable fault.

I'm not entirely sure what I'm there for and ask exactly that question only to be told "we just want you here to explain what's happening"😁

The installation of the generator had been arrange by one of our competitors, they had subbed it out to a third party and it had been done overnight. All seemed to be working and the generator kicked in a few times.


It now starts to get heated, complicated and bizarre in equal measure.

One of the DNO lads, cocky little so and so (assume you till have a the swear filter) stuck his head into the cutout house and immediately lost interest in fault finding, got on his phone and disappeared. Over the course of the next hour a further seven DNO engineers turned up and entered discussions making noises about disconnecting the generator and pulling the main fuses.


This had the customers going beyond panic and on the phone to the companies solicitors and threats to sue for millions (😁)

The owner of the competitor contract company turns up and immediately goes off his nut about me being on site and how he is no longer responsible as I'd "stuck my oar in".

The generator subby and an engineer turn up and enter into discussions with the DNO army of engineers, all reasonably polite until they put the subby spark, the subby generator company had hired, on the phone and tells the DNO guy "he hasn't got a flipping 🙄 clue what he's talking about" things got very heated.

The contentious issue was where the generator had been tied into the mains.

The cutout was a Bemco unit that splits the TPN incoming 300A supply down into four 100A TPN supplies prior to the meters. (The building had previously been four separate units, hence the bemco).

This left the generator spark two options (at 01:00 in the morning).

1, the correct choice, say it can't be done and needs some considerable modifications.

Or

2, drill and lug onto the busbars between the 300A fuses and the 100A fuses, he chose this one.

It was this that had resulted in half the regions DNO engineers wanting to turn up for a nosy.

At this point one of the clients directors starts shouting at the DNO engineers that the "don't have the right to cut us off" and "we're a billion pound company".

The DNO guys were doing a splendid job of suppressing laughter, barely.

Then a few of the DNO engineers started to state it not their kit but the suppliers, after mains fuses and before meters, whilst others were adamant the whole enclosure was their kit.

More phone calls and more DNO engineers turn up and confirm it is their kit and with no more discussion set about pulling the fuses and disconnecting the generator.

At this point the clients facilities manager vomited as the site went down.

The clients IT department were shouting a running countdown on how long the server UPS batteries had left, like they needed the additional tension.

At this point I was sat in my van with Stealers Wheel, Stuck in the middle playing on the stereo.

Still have no idea what I was there for but the best days paid entertainment I've ever had.

I would love to offer updates but, as you can imagine, I'm not touching this pooiest of sticks.

I had to leave but before I did I overherd one of the DNO saying to the generator guy, "next time you might want to connect the generator after the meters, just saying" 😁😁
 
In the intervening years they had done precisely nothing.

This is a corporate HQ with data centre covering 5-600 remote locations. If the servers go down they lose half a million a day. This I a multi billion pound outfit.
Actually I was at the laughing stage when I got this far.

£0.5M per day cost of down time and they don't have automated backup generation already in place sounds like a bunch of idiots to begin with!
 
At least if they pulled the main fuses, the genny could run to power the datacentre, sort of manual changeover, :)
Yeah I wondered about that too, but as it sounds like the bus bar chamber was theirs, so they’d have stripped out the genny connection.

I can’t understand how this would have worked anyway. Maybe there was an isolator after the 300A incomer which could be manually switched off (as an emergency lash up) before starting the generator and before the UPSs run down. But if so, there’d have been no need for the DNO to pull cutouts.
 
Ha ha! Great story. Is this how you spend your days? 😂

If the genny was inserted upstream of the meters (!) how did the changeover operate?
Generators not my thing, one of many, and things were tense enough without me sticking my head in asking "OOH, what that big red box for?"

So honest answer is, I haven't the foggiest.
 
Actually I was at the laughing stage when I got this far.

£0.5M per day cost of down time and they don't have automated backup generation already in place sounds like a bunch of idiots to begin with!
That exact point was forcefully made, and in almost exactly the same words, by one of the DNO guys.

These people are horrendous. They expect everything done yesterday and if you can't they'll take it personally and move you to the bottom of their contractor list.

Then theres their utter incompetence and fire fighting sense of urgency. More often that not the urgency is because they've done sweet FA about a known issue and its blown up in their faces.

It was an absolute joy to watch how these attitudes played out with the DNO. Screaming "you can't" at a DNO engineer is the shortest route to finding out just what powers they have. Red rag to a bull.
 
Thinking again about this entertaining story, it appears that everyone involved (except for the OP) was being a total dick. :)

Including the DNO staff: don’t forget it was their failure to provide reliable power that started this saga in the first place.

Shame you don’t know about generators OP, this scenario needed someone to take charge, then get everybody to either calm down or to p!ss off, get the toolbox out, and find a solution. Then charge a five grand a day consultancy fee.

If this is how big companies carry on, I’m glad I’ve never worked for anyone but myself.
 
If the genny was inserted upstream of the meters (!) how did the changeover operate?
I was thinking the same. If the DNO has to do any work they can't have the generator back-feeding the grid, so somebody has to isolate the incoming power when the generator is on-line?

Running in parallel is an option if agreed with DNO, etc, but this seems like a pretty dumb hack and really exposes the lack of foresight in dealing with both the original issue and the more general question of "what happens in a power cut?" that I thought most businesses looked at over last winter's high risk of outages.
 
I was thinking the same. If the DNO has to do any work they can't have the generator back-feeding the grid, so somebody has to isolate the incoming power when the generator is on-line?

Running in parallel is an option if agreed with DNO, etc, but this seems like a
I was thinking the same. If the DNO has to do any work they can't have the generator back-feeding the grid, so somebody has to isolate the incoming power when the generator is on-line?

Running in parallel is an option if agreed with DNO, etc, but this seems like a pretty dumb hack …
Yeah. So the scenario appears to have been that not only is the firm’s generator trying to power the entire national grid, but also they pay the supplier for any of their own power that makes it into their own installation.

Excellent engineering design. 😂😂😂
 
Yeah. So the scenario appears to have been that not only is the firm’s generator trying to power the entire national grid, but also they pay the supplier for any of their own power that makes it into their own installation.

Excellent engineering design. 😂😂😂
Unfortunately, as hilarious as that would be, no. The Genny folks had some wizards box that switched the mains off when the Genny kicked in.

The were however paying their supplier for the electricity they paid to generate, retards.
 
Unfortunately, as hilarious as that would be, no. The Genny folks had some wizards box that switched the mains off when the Genny kicked in.
It's getting more and more intriguing, and exactly how the genny installer did this is probably something we'll never know for sure.
I'm imagining he pulled fuses, lugged the bus bar chamber, disconnected the supply side and somehow re-terminated onto his own gear. If that's the case it's easy to see why the DNO guy's jaw hit the floor!

I love the idea of more and more turning up to look at it. This comes to mind....
1691090971034.png

I reckon that if the big mouths in suits hadn't starting shooting their mouths off a compromise could have been reached to disconnect it after hours again.
The key is negotiating with the people on the ground before anyone in senior management gets involved. Then pizza, beer, cheesecake and a little cash bonus can achieve an awful lot, maybe even a delay until 1am again....!
 

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