Inaccessible joint box... Compliant or not?

[DNS1]

Hi guys,

Moved a door from one end of a wall to the other, bricked up the hole and now moving a 1 gang light switch so it's next to the new door.

The easiest solution is to extend the cable from where the switch used to be, cables and joint box chased into the wall and plastered in.

How can I make this compliant?

Obviously I'm not about to plaster in a standard junction box, but can I use a rated enclosure and Wagos?

 

[simpson93]

not giving much to go on, how is it wired? from the light to switch or swith to light, accesible to go over or under?

 

[MarkieSparkie]

As I see it two possible solutions:

BRB:- Section 526 applies.

1) Use the existing back box in which to make the terminations, either with choc-block, wagos or small JB and then add a blanking cover to the box.

2) Crimp the terminations and place in an enclosure like a choc-box, secure the box in the wall chase and plaster over.
Remember if you do this it has to be within a safe zone, not where the old cable drop or switch box was.

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

I did the exact same thing twice this week, staggered crimp butt connectors, heat shrink sleeving then self amalgamating tape, the ceilings had fancy coving and the customet did not want me going anywhere near it so i ran in as close to the safe zones as possible and changed the MCB to an RCBO

 

[Deleted member 9648]

As far as I'm concerned a joint should never be plastered into a wall,no matter what type. Pull the cable up under the floor,and use a suitable joint box to extend it to the new position.
I'm clearly in a minority here,but a plastered in joint has always been unacceptable to me and always will be.

 

[Guest123]

Using the old switch backbox to make the connection with a blank plate fitted would be sensible IMO.

1. The joint is easily accessible should you ever have any problems & 2. The blank plate will warn others that there are cables present in the vicinity

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Junction boxs trapped by loft conversion I couldnt access switch wire, otherwise i would of replaced it, customer said no to blanking plate, they all do

 

[truckster]

Could you cut a box in up close to the ceiling and do as Lenny says?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Either crimp or solder a new length of cable onto the old, suitable Wago type connectors and boxes are now allowed to be used for permanent inaccessible joints in the amendment.
The cable must be in a safe zone and protected by a 30mA RCD unless the have another suitable form of additional protection.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Doesnt it mention in bs7671 that all joints have to be accessable?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Actually, it mentions that connections have to be accessible.
However 526.3 allows for certain exeptions:
(i) A joint designed to be buried in the ground
(ii) A compound-filled joint
(iii) A connection between a cold tail and a heating element as in ceiling heating, floor heating or a trace heating systems
(iv) A joint made by welding, soldering, brazing or appropriate compression tools
(v) A joint forming part of the equipment complying with the appropriate product standard.
and now in the amendment:
(v) Joints or connections made in equipment by the manufacturer of the product and not intended to be inspected or maintained (this has been changed for clarification?)
(vi) Equipment complying with BS 5733 for a maintenance-free accessory and marked with the symbol MF and installed in accordance with manufacture's instructions.

 

[truckster]

Actually, it mentions that connections have to be accessible.
However 526.3 allows for certain exeptions:
(i) A joint designed to be buried in the ground
(ii) A compound-filled joint
(iii) A connection between a cold tail and a heating element as in ceiling heating, floor heating or a trace heating systems
(iv) A joint made by welding, soldering, brazing or appropriate compression tools
(v) A joint forming part of the equipment complying with the appropriate product standard.
and now in the amendment:
(v) Joints or connections made in equipment by the manufacturer of the product and not intended to be inspected or maintained (this has been changed for clarification?)
(vi) Equipment complying with BS 5733 for a maintenance-free accessory and marked with the symbol MF and installed in accordance with manufacture's instructions.

Thats the important bit

 

[DNS1]

Unfortunately the joint will be just outside of a safe zone, so I was thinking of putting it in an earthed metal enclosure. Fairly sure this will be compliant, but correct me if I'm wrong. The circuit is RCD protected.

Not used Wagos before, but as I understand from the forum, they are classified as maintenance-free. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks.

 

[Spudnik]

If its outside a SZ then you can either move it into a SZ or chase the length of cable out and use earthed metallic conduit.

 

[LOYDE]

I had this with my college lecturer who reckoned that some London institute needs to approve them first.
Until then they don't comply. Whereas crimping the connection's has been tested by this place (I can not remember the name though).

 

[mickys86]

I had this with my college lecturer who reckoned that some London institute needs to approve them first.
Until then they don't comply. Whereas crimping the connection's has been tested by this place (I can not remember the name though).

I thought wagos was approved by the company only. And are not going to be compliant until the new regs come into force in January

 

[Deleted member 26818]

When exactly do new Regulations and amendments come into force?
If you issue an EIC stating that the work complies with BS7671 as amended to 01/01/12, would that not be acceptable, even if the EIC was issued in 2011?
However if the cables are outside of a safe zone, unless they have an acceptable method of additional protection, they would be a departure, and the designer would have to attest that what ever method is used, would offer the same degree of safety as would be achieved by compliance with the Regulations.