new db in garage upgrade bonding needed?

[stevemack]

Hi guys,

I am installing a sub circuit to a garage at the bottom of a garden and was wondering if I am responsible for upgrading the bonding to gas and water.
It is apparent that the house has had a db upgrade recently (in last 5 years) has RCD protected power circuits and everything else i.e lighting isnt.
The pipes have been bonded together next to the boiler.

I am wondering wether i should be installing new 10mm earths to the gas and water to bring it up to 17th regs even though the install i am doing has no gas or water supplied to it?

cheers any advice rep will be given

steve

 

[Octopus]

Just to be contencious I'd say no!

 

[Paul.M]

Yes you are Steve (sorry Murdoch). Any change to an installment means you have to make sure the earthing and bonding are correct.

 

[HandySparks]

What bonding cables are already there? (size and location)

 

[telectrix]

you don't say if bonding is present at this moment. is it undersized, or just non-existant? the reason i ask is that if it's 6mm bonding there are certain conditions which, if met, mean that it can stay as 6mm.

 

[Octopus]

Yes you are Steve (sorry Murdoch). Any change to an installment means you have to make sure the earthing and bonding are correct.

I was being contencious as mr DIYer won't give a stuff about bonding and nor would Jonnie from down the pub.

Anyway how exactly is the bonding in the house going to help the safety in the garage anyway!!!

 

[telectrix]

the only way round it would be to split the tails so that your installation was a separate installation to the house. having said that, if anyone were to be electrocuted in the house, for whatever reason, it's your head that will roll, as you were the last one to work there ( electrically speaking)

 

[Paul.M]

I was being contencious as mr DIYer won't give a stuff about bonding and nor would Jonnie from down the pub.

Anyway how exactly is the bonding in the house going to help the safety in the garage anyway!!!

Mr Murdoch. Lets not arrgue over this just because I Quoted you.

1st point your absolutly correct. Its a five year old install so 16th ed. Bonding not to 10mm and lights not on rcd??????

2nd point. Any new or amended circuits in the property needs earthing and bonding to current regs (unless equation is applied and correct figures are achieved).


I'm not having a go mate, just stating the regs, rules and condictions that we make our living by. peace.

 

[Des 56]

Additions
The earthing and bonding arrangements,if necessary for the protective measure applied for the safety of the addition shall be adequate

The question now. Does the bonding in the house affect the safety at the garage,considering that there is no pipework ?
It appears not

 

[Knobhead]

You can pontificate all day. But until the OP comes back, you’re talking amongst yourselves. OK discussion is a good thing
:21:

 

[Paul.M]

Lets see if he gets back to us.

 

[ian.settle1]

You can pontificate all day. But until the OP comes back, you’re talking amongst yourselves. OK discussion is a good thing
:21:

Wonder if the OP is a one post wonder like a few we get on here

arty:

 

[Octopus]

Wonder if the OP is a one post wonder like a few we get on here

arty:

I think that "unused" accounts should be locked off and deleted, rather than chased up - since Dan started regularly chsing people the Forum has had a deluge of (mainly) undesirable no hopers WANTING EVERYTHING and giving NOTHING in return.

 

[stevemack]

I apologize for my late reply but some of us have work to do rather than sitting on a forum all day. I thankyou greatly for your advice and opinions. I have another problem now, the customer doesn't wish to have a cable secured direct to the surface of her house which has recently been decorated. Can i just state there is no bonding present in the deviations section of the cert. will mr niceic take this as acceptable??

 

[stevemack]

What bonding cables are already there? (size and location)

the only pipes that have any bonding are the ones at the boiler all bonded to gether with 6mm

 

[WayneL]

I apologize for my late reply but some of us have work to do rather than sitting on a forum all day. I thankyou greatly for your advice and opinions. I have another problem now, the customer doesn't wish to have a cable secured direct to the surface of her house which has recently been decorated. Can i just state there is no bonding present in the deviations section of the cert. will mr niceic take this as acceptable??

No you can't - and wha's it got to do with the NICEIC??

Should you be doing this job if you have to ask these questions - if the 'bonding' needs doing, then do it.....what's the problem??

You sound like your looking for permission, from us, not to do it.

 

[stevemack]

No you can't - and wha's it got to do with the NICEIC??

Should you be doing this job if you have to ask these questions - if the 'bonding' needs doing, then do it.....what's the problem??

You sound like your looking for permission, from us, not to do it.

Because the Niceic are our governing body???? I am looking for advice from you , much more experienced, guys to solve this problem in the hope you may have come across it before. I know I should upgrade the bonding but have an issue with what the client will allow me to do. Yes it needs doing but how can I if they won't let me. And considering my installation has nothing to do with the rest of the house where the pipework is I'm trying to find out how necessary it is anyway. I mainly undertake new rewires so additions are an area where I occasionally need some extra advice what's wrong with that? Thought that's what this forum is for...

 

[leo79]

Because the Niceic are our governing body???? I am looking for advice from you , much more experienced, guys to solve this problem in the hope you may have come across it before. I know I should upgrade the bonding but have an issue with what the client will allow me to do. Yes it needs doing but how can I if they won't let me. And considering my installation has nothing to do with the rest of the house where the pipework is I'm trying to find out how necessary it is anyway. I mainly undertake new rewires so additions are an area where I occasionally need some extra advice what's wrong with that? Thought that's what this forum is for...

God knows how I've been getting by for the last 5 years then because I've never had one thing to do with NIC.

 

[not clever]

Leave it at 6mm.
Give nicey tec line a call and ask what they advise.

 

[stevemack]

Leave it at 6mm.
Give nicey tec line a call and ask what they advise.

Even though they are just bonded together it doesn't actually go back to the met? My knowledge of 16th regs are limited is this how it used to be done?

 

[WayneL]

Because the Niceic are our governing body???? I am looking for advice from you , much more experienced, guys to solve this problem in the hope you may have come across it before. I know I should upgrade the bonding but have an issue with what the client will allow me to do. Yes it needs doing but how can I if they won't let me. And considering my installation has nothing to do with the rest of the house where the pipework is I'm trying to find out how necessary it is anyway. I mainly undertake new rewires so additions are an area where I occasionally need some extra advice what's wrong with that? Thought that's what this forum is for...

This is basic stuff, but I'll tell you anyway.

The installation that you intend 'extending', (with your garage supply), will be protected by ADS and 'Main Protective Bonding'.

As your new sub-main to the garage will become part of that installation, these protective measures need to be in place and adequate.

ADS ensures disconnection of the supply, within a specified time, under single fault conditions.

Main Protective Bonding, (of incomming services), ensures that the 'potential difference' between 'Exposed Conductive Parts' and 'Extraneous Conductive Parts' is kept to a minimum.

Can you not see that an earth fault on your new 'installation' in the garage will result in a rise in 'voltage' on all 'earthed' metalwork within the whole installation, (including the rest of the house).

If the incomming services weren't bonded, and the fault wasn't cleared quickly enough, what do you think would happen to anyone who happened to be in contact with some earthed metalwork and a 'not-bonded' water pipe?

You need to tell your customer that it is required to be done as part of the job - or you can't provide a supply to the garage.

 

[brucelee]

Hi mate as wayne says
If there is no Main protective bonding present and jsut the cross bonding then needs doing before you carry out additions and alterations to the existing
No Bonding No likey and neither will the assessor lol