Professional Advice needed Re. Condemned Wiring

[louislouis]

Hello Electricians

I'm after some general but professional advice, figured this forum would be a good place to ask and would really appreciate some help.

My ex-partner recently mentioned in conversation they had an electrician round to look at changing some light fittings for ascetic reasons.

The electrician advised them that the wiring had been condemned and the house needs rewiring, I believe it's due to the age of the house. I don't know much more than this but I believe that based on this the electrician wasn't willing to work on the light fittings. I'm going to try and find out more tomorrow.

This is my daughter's home and I'm now concerned for her safety. Really just want an idea of the sorts of risks there might be in a house where wiring has been condemned.

Initial thoughts are that safety standards have been improved over the years, maybe modern appliances now draw more power... Possible fire risks?

Do I really need to be worried? If somebody could just lay out the potential risks, maybe give examples of why wiring might get condemned due to age....

Any help/advice will be greatly appreciated


Worried Louis

 

[buzzlightyear]

the possibly that some of the lighting circuits might have volcanized rubber cable or very old cables
the only why is having a report done ,and then you will no what is wrong with the installation .

 

[Andy-1960]

How old is the property?

 

[louislouis]

How old is the property?

She did tell me but i'm going to have to get more info tomorrow.

Either the 60's or 70s, pretty sure it was the 60s.....


Thanks for getting back to me, I'm going to ask whether a report exists tomorrow...

 

[South Spark]

"Condemned" might be a bit strong .

I've had to explain to people that I can't fit the new metal light fitting acquired at great expense from Homebase because there's no earth in the lighting circuit a couple of times.

 

[MJPD29]

if it was 60s there a 50/50 chance it could be vulcanised rubber cable, in which case the electrician is most likely correct

 

[telectrix]

She did tell me but i'm going to have to get more info tomorrow.

Either the 60's or 70s, pretty sure it was the 60s.....


Thanks for getting back to me, I'm going to ask whether a report exists tomorrow...

there are 3 posibilities...
1. the wiring is old/dangerous and needs a rewire.
2. the property could benefit from some upgrading and a possible rewire.
3. some cowboy spark sees ££££s and descends to scaremongering.

only a site visit could determine the way forward. if you post a more precise location, one of us maybe close enough to have a gander.

 

[louislouis]

there are 3 posibilities...
1. the wiring is old/dangerous and needs a rewire.
2. the property could benefit from some upgrading and a possible rewire.
3. some cowboy spark sees ££££s and descends to scaremongering.

only a site visit could determine the way forward. if you post a more precise location, one of us maybe close enough to have a gander.

What I do know is that the electrician who can to look at doing these fittings isn't the one who condemned the wiring.

I think they found something with a date on it, maybe attached to the breaker box or somewhere similar. I'll ask tomorrow but i'm pretty certain a report was done at least a couple of years ago.

What worried me is that I know the landlord and they don't like spending money at all....

 

[Octopus]

if it was 60s there a 50/50 chance it could be vulcanised rubber cable, in which case the electrician is most likely correct

I would say you are about 10 years out. 1950's ....

 

[telectrix]

yep, 60's heralded the introduction of beautiful pvc 7/029 stranded. far superior to the crap we use today. ( and in the right colours).

 

[Octopus]

The main issue with 1960 houses are:

Lack of earths in lighting circuits
Lack of metal back boxes for light switches
Lack of equipotential bonding
Lack of sockets
Too few circuits

The there are desirable latest requirements such as RCDs and metal fuse boards

Not having an earth in a lighting cable is not dangerous if only plastic switches and fittings are used ....

Sounds like somebody is scaremongering ...

 

[louislouis]

Thanks for having a look at this guys I'm going to get more info tomorrow.

 

[The Ghost]

If as your post suggests it is a rented property there is a requirement to inspect the property every five years. So there should be an EICR extant with the Landlord. That is a safety certificate. If not and the Landlord does "not wish to spend money" then advise the local council the wiring has been condemned and discuss options. If you go and look take photos of the main switchgear and a few fittings and any wiring exposed if you can, and post them on here.

 

[louislouis]

If as your post suggests it is a rented property there is a requirement to inspect the property every five years. So there should be an EICR extant with the Landlord. That is a safety certificate. If not and the Landlord does "not wish to spend money" then advise the local council the wiring has been condemned and discuss options. If you go and look take photos of the main switchgear and a few fittings and any wiring exposed if you can, and post them on here.

Thanks for the advice.

It's a private let, landlord is family friend and and I know 100% no EICR exists.

 

[westward10]

A landlord of a single occupancy dwelling is legally obliged to ensure the electrical system is safe, this does not necessarily mean an EICR. HMOs are different where it is a legal requirement to undertake EICRs .

 

[louislouis]

A landlord of a single occupancy dwelling is legally obliged to ensure the electrical system is safe, this does not necessarily mean an EICR. HMOs are different where it is a legal requirement to undertake EICRs .

This is a 3 bed detached house

I'm not familiar with the definition for single occupancy

 

[westward10]

This is a 3 bed detached house

I'm not familiar with the definition for single occupancy

What I mean is it is not being rented to more than one person whereas an HMO ( House of Multiple Occuoancy) is. Strictly speaking the only legal requirement in your case is to maintain safe electrical systems and not necessarily an EICR.

 

[louislouis]

What I mean is it is not being rented to more than one person whereas an HMO ( House of Multiple Occuoancy) is. Strictly speaking the only legal requirement in your case is to maintain safe electrical systems and not necessarily an EICR.

I'm with you, just looked it up.

Yes it's one family living there under one tenancy.

Thanks for the advice

 

[MJPD29]

Could be it was just was just a bit of a guess on a couple I've seen, was working in a street from 1964 and they wired the lights in VIR but everything else in pvc, very strange

I would say you are about 10 years out. 1950's ....

 

[buzzlightyear]

http://www.elecsa.co.uk/Documents/P...s-Guide-to-Electrical-Safety-May-2011_01.aspx

 

[The Ghost]

While it is true there is no explicit legal requirement to execute a PIR on single occupancy the fact that there is a requirement under a number of statutory rules to ensure electrical installations are safe, the only way to comply is with a PIR/EICR. By the sounds of the installation described by the OP these legal requirements my be being breached in which case there is a real possibility of legal enforcement.

 

[Pete999]

Hello Electricians

I'm after some general but professional advice, figured this forum would be a good place to ask and would really appreciate some help.

My ex-partner recently mentioned in conversation they had an electrician round to look at changing some light fittings for ascetic reasons.

The electrician advised them that the wiring had been condemned and the house needs rewiring, I believe it's due to the age of the house. I don't know much more than this but I believe that based on this the electrician wasn't willing to work on the light fittings. I'm going to try and find out more tomorrow.

This is my daughter's home and I'm now concerned for her safety. Really just want an idea of the sorts of risks there might be in a house where wiring has been condemned.

Initial thoughts are that safety standards have been improved over the years, maybe modern appliances now draw more power... Possible fire risks?

Do I really need to be worried? If somebody could just lay out the potential risks, maybe give examples of why wiring might get condemned due to age....

Any help/advice will be greatly appreciated


Worried Louis

Louis
You need an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) carried out, by a repibutable electrician, NOT by the guy that has condemned your wiring with a quick look, he more than likely is, as Tel says after a quick buck,
The EICR should higlight any problems yoy may have, don't know the costing in your area, but I think a couple of hundred should cover the report ( It's been a while since I did an EICR so my price may be off, others will be more accurate anyway the Electrician will quote before carrying out any testing)
Good luck

 

[PEG]

Hi,you cannot condemn any installation,purely on the an estimated age of the fitted equipment.
This HAS to be backed up,with further inspection,testing,and a specific explanation of why it is either not fit for use,or does not comply to any relevant rule or statute.

Just because something is old,does not mean it is not fit for purpose,or Vince Cables wife,would have had a new husband fitted.

The fact that the landlord has not chosen to have an electrical inspection,does certainly not,mean the property is dangerous. It does however indicate his lack of care and foresight,in opening up his risk of litigation,should it be so.

My parents property was built in 1963,and has had no rewire,a few additions,with one new DB,10 years ago. It is in fine order,and complies with all testing criteria and regulations,barring an iron DB,which it is not missing,as all connections were done correctly.

 

[KEV 1 N]

Could be it was just was just a bit of a guess on a couple I've seen, was working in a street from 1964 and they wired the lights in VIR but everything else in pvc, very strange

My house was built in 1965 and everything was in TRS....the council must have had a load of reels in stock!

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

A landlord of a single occupancy dwelling is legally obliged to ensure the electrical system is safe, this does not necessarily mean an EICR. HMOs are different where it is a legal requirement to undertake EICRs .

I believe you are right there @westward10 As far as i was aware the EICR does not apply to rented properties unless it is a HMO or subject to a council who only pay housing benefit to landlords who have agreed to meet certain standards, one being a EICR at certain intervals, complaints process etc.... Housing associations work to their own rules and normally do one before every tenancy. For private landlords the only thing is gas certificates and to make sure the electrics are safe and fit for purpose which is very much open to interpretation, although a eicr coudl be seen as establishing the safety.

 

[7029 dave]

I would say you are about 10 years out. 1950's ....

It was still being used in the early 60's.

 

[sparksfly]

The only way to prove that there is an issue at all is to have an EICR carried out as mentioned earlier. The fact that an electrician has pointed out something, whether right or wrong, has raised an issue. If it was me I would go to the LL with these concerns and hope that the LL will act. Cover yourself by txt or email just in case ....it is difficult when you know the LL. As it stands there is no direct legal requirement but still a duty of care.

I met one LL, in 2008 who boasted hundreds of properties around the UK. I met him at a ground floor flat he was about to purchase. I advised RCD protection for possible mobile equipment use outside...but would have to carry out inspection/test to get a better picture. He said he was not about upgrade all his properties to RCD protection (not my words) and BTW to prove duty of care in the courts is a very grey area.
I asked "do you know if that socket outlet has an earth or very high resistance?" He said "no why ?"...I said ..."I don't know either... until it is properly tested"....I walked away.
I have met a few LL's that do care and insist on a 5 year test...not many.

 

[Pete999]

The only way to prove that there is an issue at all is to have an EICR carried out as mentioned earlier. The fact that an electrician has pointed out something, whether right or wrong, has raised an issue. If it was me I would go to the LL with these concerns and hope that the LL will act. Cover yourself by txt or email just in case ....it is difficult when you know the LL. As it stands there is no direct legal requirement but still a duty of care.
Reference the last question you were asked, the best answer would be with wittnesses is "hang on a minute I'll consult my Crystal Ball"

I met one LL, in 2008 who boasted hundreds of properties around the UK. I met him at a ground floor flat he was about to purchase. I advised RCD protection for possible mobile equipment use outside...but would have to carry out inspection/test to get a better picture. He said he was not about upgrade all his properties to RCD protection (not my words) and BTW to prove duty of care in the courts is a very grey area.
I asked "do you know if that socket outlet has an earth or very high resistance?" He said "no why ?"...I said ..."I don't know either... until it is properly tested"....I walked away.
I have met a few LL's that do care and insist on a 5 year test...not many.

 

[JK-Electrical]

What worried me is that I know the landlord and they don't like spending money at all....

Cor blimey ..... stone the crows ..... blow me over .... strike a light guv ..... knock me down with a feather ..... a landlord who doesn't like spending money. Now there's a surprise.

 

[Toneyz]

Are we any the wiser why the light fitting could not be installed/the installation "condemned"?