Discuss RCD (sometimes) trips on switching OFF an ELO in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net
there's always the alternative
SALAD
there's always the alternative
SALAD
there's always the alternative
SALAD
I think you may have hit it!So you have a hob and oven connected in a junction box , mmm that always rings alarm bells to me especially if its a modern oven that can be plugged into a socket why i hear you ask ,well if and i say if the oven is the type i have mentioned then it is supplied with its own cable and normally is 1.5mm , connected to a cooker circuit protected by a 32 amp MCB ,doing this would provide no overload protection to the oven cable , this wiring should be protected by a FCU easily done behind the cooker circuit or should be on its own circuit mean while back to the problem , it could be the start of the RCD becomming fault and you may find that it will start to trip occasionally when other items are switched on or off, this should be checked , claire is right in some ways , its could well be a switch problem where the switch is sticking closed when its switched off before opening thus not making a clean break of the connection causing an imbalance /slight arch always a possability , if its an RCD fault then the only real way to find out would be to replace the RCD , a Ramp test will show the tripping current how ever testing may not show up the described fault
You won't be able to see to burn the food then
Bon chance, a de suite!
I do eat salads but "takeaways" NEVER - and anyway I need to warm my bedtime socks of a cold night,An excellent suggestion but it has its flaws
The Salad solution may only be a partial solution
Who is to say the meat eaters in the family will accept this
A deep roast in a suitable oven exceeds the taste of cold chicken portions I'm sure
I have spent a merry Sat morning playing endless rounds of "Trip the RCD" mostly successfully (in getting trips that is). Nevertheless, I have made some progress. I now realize that (correctly) the cooker circuit is not tripped by the RCD - only the two power circuits go out (again correctly).That is to say, in a "RCD trip situation" the oven is working. Repeatedly switching the oven on and off, it seldom tripped (perhaps once in 20 operations. However operating the Cooker Switch almost invariably causes a trip. It can do this both switching "On" or "Off". It does it even if the oven is switched off by the programme selector switch. If I disconnect the ceramic hob from the junction box the problem is there. If I disconnect the oven and have only the hob connected there is no problem operating the cooker switch. That suggests there is an insulation problem with the original oven cable? Since when I switch the cooker switch "On" while the oven switch is "Off" all that comes into play is the cooker circuit trying to feed the oven via its cable? I am at a loss to understand why that would cause an RCD trip on the power circuits when the cooker circuit Live/Neutral amperage differential is not being measured - perhaps some electrician Hercule Poirot will explain it to me!So you have a hob and oven connected in a junction box , mmm that always rings alarm bells to me especially if its a modern oven that can be plugged into a socket why i hear you ask ,well if and i say if the oven is the type i have mentioned then it is supplied with its own cable and normally is 1.5mm , connected to a cooker circuit protected by a 32 amp MCB ,doing this would provide no overload protection to the oven cable , this wiring should be protected by a FCU easily done behind the cooker circuit or should be on its own circuit mean while back to the problem , it could be the start of the RCD becomming fault and you may find that it will start to trip occasionally when other items are switched on or off, this should be checked , claire is right in some ways , its could well be a switch problem where the switch is sticking closed when its switched off before opening thus not making a clean break of the connection causing an imbalance /slight arch always a possability , if its an RCD fault then the only real way to find out would be to replace the RCD , a Ramp test will show the tripping current how ever testing may not show up the described fault
Could you be so kind as to read my latest reply post to "nickblake" and comment thereon?Probably takes the oven heating elements out of the equation, but not the internal wiring, the light itself, or even possibly the control circuit.
As pushrod has said (we're assuming you are talking about the cooker isolator when you way the main switch) the isolator is not the way to turn the cooker on/off.
Yes, of course - I don't normally use it for anything other than its intended purpose of isolating the cooker/oven/whatever if I am going to work on it. The point is I have been trying all conceivable operations as a diagnostic. With the oven switched off it is operating under a no-load condition so should not arc. Furthermore, as stated, it does not cause a trip when only the ceramic hob is wired in - arcing would ocur irrespective of what was connected downstream.A cooker switch is really a double pole isolator. Isolators as such are not really intended for switching in the way that a light switch is (under any load) - speed of separation of contacts, distances and hardening of contact points. It is possible that you are getting arcing at this point that causes the rcd to trip.
You could be on the right track but more likely to prevent first-rate French cooking equipment being used to prepare British "cuisine". This is the only country I know of where appiance manufacturers offer a "double microwave" option.could it be the surrender monkeys getting revenge for waterloo?
You could be on the right track but more likely to prevent first-rate French cooking equipment being used to prepare British "cuisine". This is the only country I know of where appiance manufacturers offer a "double microwave" option.
french cuisine??? smelly mouldy cheese, frog's legs, cold soup, shergar, piat d'or ( translates as golden p*ss ), croissants, whatever they are. i'll stick to my fry-ups and rare steak & chips.
i have only referred to the "Cooker Switch" (OK "cooker isolator" if you prefer - but all the elec suppliers list them as "switches") never used "main switch" which I would take as the Mains Isolator on the board.As pushrod has said (we're assuming you are talking about the cooker isolator when you way the main switch) the isolator is not the way to turn the cooker on/off.
Im Deutschland habst sie gut essen? Ich glaube nicht!danke schon.
For the electrics of my kitchen renovation project I will now replace the RCD as a matter of course - it is 4-5 years old anyway. But that cannot be the problem. If I just leave the oven alone my whole house operates fine with never a trip as it has done for the past 4 years. The problem only manifested itself when I recently replaced the old cooker (no problem then) with the ELO/Ceramic Hob combo in anticipation of my eventual set-up. The old cooker was a bit of crap. There is no doubt that the problem is somwhere in the oven installation.just to get back to a sensible theme...... it is sounding to me like the gremlins have got into the |RCD. for what it costs, try replacing the RCD.
Many thanks for the helpful suggestion of photos - will post some tomorrow.That's true, but even if the isolator is used to disconnect L & N going to the cooker, why would arcing there trip an RCD that those L & N are not going through? IE - when the RCD trips it appears from the posts above that the cooker is still working, so I assume that the cooker circuit is not (or is not only) connected to the RCD in question.
Is is possible to have some photos of the Consumer Unit both with the front on (to see the labelling) and off (having first switched off, of course)?
I think you may have hit it!
When I originally bought and installed this oven in France it had a cable with a continental plug and there was socket in the kitchen for it on a separate circuit from the hob. I put it down to differing electrical systems (e.g. they use fused circuits, individual neutrals back to the board, etc) so without further thought I just put it on to the cooker circuit as I described. Seems that could be the root of the problem. Also your theory of "cumulative small leakages" reaching the trip threshold makes a lot of sense and I will try to check it out by disconnecting everything in sight though ithat may not be conclusive as it doesn't trip "on request".
Either way it seems that it would be best to have a separate circuit installed. I don't entirely understand your wiring proposal - If it is cabled back to a 32A MCB on the board it somehow has leakage protection separately from the existing RCD? If I go that route I'll get an electrician in to do it but would like it to be a case of him implementing a viable solution not confronting a problem.
For the electrics of my kitchen renovation project I will now replace the RCD as a matter of course - it is 4-5 years old anyway. But that cannot be the problem. If I just leave the oven alone my whole house operates fine with never a trip as it has done for the past 4 years. The problem only manifested itself when I recently replaced the old cooker (no problem then) with the ELO/Ceramic Hob combo in anticipation of my eventual set-up. The old cooker was a bit of crap. There is no doubt that the problem is somwhere in the oven installation.
I am NOT doing anything to the Consumer Unit. As I thought I had made clear - if work on the CU proves necessary then I shall call in a registered electrician for that. What I am trying to do is avoid an unneccesary call-in and nothing to date suggests a problem at the board or the distribution wiring. The problem clearly starts at the cooker switch.To cable from there to an oven does not need an electrician - it is just everyday DIY commonsense. The cooker switch is demonstrably OK when used solely for the ceramic hob so that only leaves the cable from the cooker switch to the oven and the oven itself. Since everything has been trouble-free for 4 years and remains so except when the newly installed oven comes into the picture, with due respect, testing components that can be demonstrated to be operating satisfactorily is a red herring.Have you actually re-checked the terminations you did for tightness, etc?
SEVERAL TIMES
When the oven is switched off at the appliances is there still a clock working on it?
YES
A pic of the fuseboard would certainly help - are you saying that the cooker circuit is on the non rcd side of the board and takes out the rcd which is controlling just 2 power circuits?
CORRECT. On the RCD side: Two power circuits. On the non-RCD side: cooker circuit/lighting circuit/security alarm circuit. And Yes, it does take out the RCD cutting out the power circuits but not the cooker/lighting/security circuits.
Some of your understanding and logic does not actually hold up and to be honest you should not be doing anything to your consumer unit unless you are properly competent and have test equipment, regardless of part P regulations. You have had the benefit of many experienced sparks here and it has been said numerous times that it really should be tested properly.
sorry, my grasp of german is limited to danke, bitte, achtung spitfeurIm Deutschland habst sie gut essen? Ich glaube nicht!
Im Deutschland habst sie gut essen? Ich glaube nicht!
Reply to RCD (sometimes) trips on switching OFF an ELO in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net
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