shock from shower

[scousefowler]

just had a call from a customer, saying she is getting a belt from the metal hose part of her newly installed electric shower. she has recently had a new bathroom installed, and as part of the work she had an existing electric shower moved, new spots installed and a bathroom fan installed, all done by the bathroom fitter. he has given no certificate for the work, and when she has tried to contact him he said its just `static`. he does not see the danger of the situation.

anyway to get to the point, around 4 years ago we changed the consumer unit for a 16th edition unit, and upgraded the earthing to regulation, and provided certificates. now the customer is really worried about the electrics in her bathroom and wants me to go and investigate and put it right ect.

to be honest i am a bit reluctant to get involved, but it really narks me that someone has done this and potentially put someone at risk and the customer is pleading with me to go tomorrow and investigate and put right so i`ve said i`ll go up and take a look but i think once i touch anything i`m going to implicate myself? i`ve said i`ll bring my camera to take photo`s but i`m just a bit unsure if i`m doing the right thing?

just wondered what you thought guys, any advice would be greatly app.

 

[chris gray]

works works mate, dunno what the pictures are going to do personally.
go find the issue and rectify it.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

What chris said....cant see how you are going to implicate yourself in anything investigating a fault on an existing installation.

 

[mnmwill]

I cant see how you are goin to implicate yourself by going and rectifying a potentially dangerous fault. I would go investigate, rectify the fault or isolate the circuit until it can be rectified. Just put the work you carry out down on paper and get her to sign it, covers yr behind.

Another case of connecting the wires and hey presto, it works!

 

[scousefowler]

i was thinking maybe just get the officer from the building dept at the council and let him look at it first so that this man can be prosecuted for what he`s done. it just annoys me when he has taken her money, not provided a recei-pt or certificate, not interested in a potentially lethal situation and generally does`nt give a f~~~. it p@~sses me off when i have to go through all the qualifications, certificates, insurance, regulations, accredditations, NICEIC and then someone like this gets off scott free

 

[deebz]

she would probably appreciated it more if you went than if you didnt, if you have previously done work and you come back and sort this even thought its not your fault chances are she prob be referring you to friends n stuff aswell for providing a good service, and the chance of getting some money for rectifying it. if you dont then she probably wont pass on any details if ever she is asked. Thats the way i think of it anyway.

 

[Notsosmart]

As above, but if you want to report the guy then report him, but take a look first to see if it is in fact something he has done.

 

[scousefowler]

yes granted i am presuming.....i`m going tomorrow so i`let you no

 

[unshockable]

I agree, why be vintictive, works work, nobody is squeeky clean

 

[scousefowler]

I agree, why be vintictive, works work, nobody is squeeky clean

you obviously don`t get the seriousness of the situation. refusing to give certificates, no receipt, people like that are supposed to be outlawed there putting people at risk.

not to mention ruining the trade.

 

[UNG]

The electrical trade was ruined long ago, these quick courses devalue the trade if you can become an electrician in a few weeks it can't be that difficult can it

 

[mechelec]

The electrical trade was ruined long ago, these quick courses devalue the trade if you can become an electrician in a few weeks it can't be that difficult can it

I agree. Before part P the chancers were there willing to do a bit of electrical work for whoever wanted a cheap job for cash. Now with part P the same people go on a five day course, pay to be registered with a scheme and now call themselves electricians. Time served in 5 days I think not. We all have to learn and with this line of work there is always something new and forums like this are great as a knowlege pool, but there are some on here who are calling themselves electrians, charging customers good money and asking questions that most would learn in the first six months of an apprentiship. Sorry rant over

 

[Kiers1970]

too true, the NICEIC are a joke, running courses, betraying time served hard working men, in the name of safety?
Rubbish, they are supposed to be a charity, they are nithing but a money making concern, we a re vastly overcharged a year for membership to them.
They are having a Golf tournament or something, great day out for them all, I wonder what the Chief Exec makes a year?

Big Joke, and it's on us....bah

 

[Geoff H]

You are in no way culpable, but to be frank if I thought someone was in danger of receiving a fatal shock I would be on my toes round there, it's a conscience thing!

 

[scousefowler]

well i went round there today (just got back) and i first carried out a few tests to ensure there was an earth (earths sometimes disappear with supply companies ect). having established a decent ze (.13) i then tested the rcd to make sure that was operating satisfactorily (which it was good trip times)

then i took shower cover off and inspected the wiring, did a zs, rcd test (all satis) and replaced cover and switched on shower. stuck my hand under it (water was hot) and left it running for a bit.

i had the 45a pull sw down at the time and as i put my driver on the socket screw to fasten it back up my arm brushed the metal shower screen door and WHACK i took a belt and the rcd tripped!

upon a few further tests it turned out the sw 6mm from the 45a sw was down to earth (reading about 1meg ohm) so i replaced it and tested all again and it was fine. i issued a cert and left customer happy.

my point is if the previous spark had done the required tests before putting the shower into service he would of come across this problem and the customer would have not been put in danger and saved herself some money. he told her he couldnt get there till thurs!! anyway i made sure i put on the cert that i only replaced the offending bit of wire and i promised her a report of what i did in the post.

we need rid of these cowboys there a pain in the arse. how many part p prosecutions have you heard of in your area? i have heard of none round me the system is a joke. i guess they only take any interest when someone is seriously hurt or worse which by then its too late.

i agree with you about the NICEIC they are acomplete joke- i`ve never seen a so called charity being run like a ruthless money making machine. they want £120 to change my registration details because i am now a ltd company! i told them it was a rip off. i am looking all the time to try and move away from domestic electrics because i think its had its day. sorry for the rant but i had to get it off my chest

 

[Kiers1970]

good find mate, any idea why the cable form the switch to the shower was down, any sign of overheating ?

these are the reasons we are trained, we understand that just cos something looks right, its not necessarily right. 5 day wonders, beware. dont know if u seen a previous post of mine, an old mate nic dom installer full scope rang me the other day, question..... how do i wrie a 2 way switch....

 

[scousefowler]

i think they`ve nicked the edge of the 6mm shower supply cable on its way up to the pull sw. a screw fixing the shower screen probably. the `new` bathroom is a complete joke. my 11yo son could do better tiling. charged her 3500 as well. ******s

 

[Kiers1970]

and the rcd did'nt trip? weird.

 

[scousefowler]

and the rcd did'nt trip? weird.

i know my only guess is that initially it was not giving the full 30ma whack to make the rcd trip. it obviously saved that for me!

 

[Kiers1970]

it goes to show that RCD protection isnt always what its cracked up to be. Your customer is very lucky. I changed a shower once after the original had burst into flames whilst being used, the users response to this? Point the shower head at it....

 

[GStueyXR]

Why would the RCD trip ? It would only trip if the exposed conductive part it was touching had earth potential. Otherwise, as you found out, there was a mains potential on the conductive part.

And that is a problem with the 17th, no need to supplementary bond anything anymore due to RCD protection. Ironically, if the RCD had been faulty as you suggested it may be, then the most probable outcome is death from the earth potential shock.

 

[GStueyXR]

it goes to show that RCD protection isnt always what its cracked up to be.

Quite the opposite.

 

[Kiers1970]

dont remember suggesting the RCD was faulty mate, simply pointing out a fact, person in shower, receiving electric shock. RCD's protect people and livestock. things may have been a lot different if it was a child with lower body resistance etc.

 

[GStueyXR]

things may have been a lot different if it was a child with lower body resistance etc.

Not really, the rcd woulda tripped quicker

 

[Kiers1970]

I picked a bad day to start drinking Stuey!

 

[GStueyXR]

take up smoking too

 

[blackiel]

Totally agree with Geoffh-if i got a call about any new install giving off a belt,let alone a shower,id be round like a flash...This bloke putting it down to static???...Should be nicked just for that attitude..

And the biggest Joke of all,these new Part P courses and regs were brought in,because of this exact same fault,an MPs daughter died whilst touching a washing machine and a utensil rack, at the same time,the rack had been screwed to the wall and just clipped the"" live wire "" running alongside it,but buried in the wall....

Thank god for Progress!!!!

 

[RexT]

Hi scousefowler,

I understand how you feel and like you I find it is really annoying when you have done all the qualifications and are working legally only to find that the guys working on the cash in hand basis get in there.

The important thing is safety and like the others have said it is surely the best move to investigate and rectify any dangerous issues. I cant see how you would be in any problems after all you did not install the shower or connect it up? Your work previously was certified and the problem arose after the shower has been installed.

It is work and the customer has come to you because they trust your professionalism. It would be interesting to know what the fault was and how it actually arose.

Best wishes

Rex

 

[mogga]

had similar but slightly different Hand wash unit lasssie was getting SHOCKS from the water :S WTF i turned it on rcd checked held neon under running water n it showed live CONFUSED.com earth core@ unit was live neutral was 0v n line was0v bampots put nice shiney mirror up top drillred through center of 2.5 tw&e cutting the earth bottom screw through line cutting it and earth making live connect to earth even when our company "tester" came to assist rewiring he couldnt beleive what had happened cable removed and replicated on the deck used meter n it showed what I had found the units heating element (can thing like in a shower) was live and hence water was live didnt trip rcd as not 30ma just a nice tingling

 

[jase]

you obviously don`t get the seriousness of the situation. refusing to give certificates, no receipt, people like that are supposed to be outlawed there putting people at risk.

not to mention ruining the trade.

upto the homeowner as to who she gets to do the work, ultimately however cheap this guy has been it will cost her money to sort out his shoddy workmanship, we hear of more and more of this kind of thing, when are people going to realise that proper tradesman cost good money cos they do good proper work, you pay peanuts you get monkeys

 

[jase]

i think they`ve nicked the edge of the 6mm shower supply cable on its way up to the pull sw. a screw fixing the shower screen probably. the `new` bathroom is a complete joke. my 11yo son could do better tiling. charged her 3500 as well. ******s

sorry, just saw this bit, £3500??? well again, i know if i was spending that sort of miney i would check credentials of said "professional"

 

[unshockable]

What I mean is shooting the guy down without even seeing the work or finding the facts, your right some people need screwdriver taken from hand for their own safety and everyone elses, I withdraw the statement it sounded flipant, but was not meant to be

 

[Risteard]

Can't see how any of that happens with a resistance of 1 million ohms.