Trunking for cable

[Bear2016]

I have a job of running a new cable to a DBB. The 16A MCB is in place and the oven is rated at 3.9kw so needs to hard wired. The customer has tiled walls and will not allow me to remove them to run the cable. He wants the oven switch surface mounted.
I have approx 0.5m of cable from DBB to the surface mounted switch which will be for the oven

The switch is a fair distance from the oven but what would you guy recommend using as trunking for a surface mounted cable?

Thanks

 

[jackhammerJIM]

Surely you mean 3.9 kw ........

 

[Bear2016]

Surely you mean 3.9 kw ........

Yeah typo! Well spotted!

 

[davesparks]

The switch is a fair distance from the oven but what would you guy recommend using as trunking for a surface mounted cable?

Thanks

What do you call a fair distance? If it's too far then it defeats the object of the switch!
A good rule of thumb, based on previous regulations, is to keep it within 2m of the appliance it controls.

As for what to use as trunking then you could do worse than to use trunking! What type of cable are you using and what size is it? You'll more than likely want a bit of bodgers trunking

 

[Bear2016]

What do you call a fair distance? If it's too far then it defeats the object of the switch!
A good rule of thumb, based on previous regulations, is to keep it within 2m of the appliance it controls.

As for what to use as trunking then you could do worse than to use trunking! What type of cable are you using and what size is it? You'll more than likely want a bit of bodgers trunking

It falls just outside of the 2m I suggested moving it closer but it is close enough to do its job.
I was going to use 6mm cable T&E as have a roll of that left in the van.

 

[Andy78]

It falls just outside of the 2m I suggested moving it closer but it is close enough to do its job.
I was going to use 6mm cable T&E as have a roll of that left in the van.

Excellent idea. I use 6mm for all my 16A circuits. Can't be too careful.

 

[jackhammerJIM]

As for what to use as trunking then you could do worse than to use trunking!

:bigcry:

 

[Dave OCD]

It falls just outside of the 2m I suggested moving it closer but it is close enough to do its job.
I was going to use 6mm cable T&E as have a roll of that left in the van.

Sounds a bit OTT to me when you're running from a 16a MCB and with the loading specified. Up to you though.

 

[Octopus]

Maybe you need to consider how big the trunking will need to be to accommodate the 6mm T&E!

 

[Andy78]

I'd go for 6"x6" galv to be on the safe side.

 

[Dave OCD]

Maybe you need to consider how big the trunking will need to be to accommodate the 6mm T&E!

I can get a 6mm and a 2.5 T&E in 16x25mm YT2 no problem. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[davesparks]

I was going to use 6mm cable T&E as have a roll of that left in the van.

And there was me thinking you would have selected the cable size and type based on some calculations and consideration of the regulations! But of course using up whatever you have lying around in the back of the van is just as good as doing calculations.

 

[Bear2016]

And there was me thinking you would have selected the cable size and type based on some calculations and consideration of the regulations! But of course using up whatever you have lying around in the back of the van is just as good as doing calculations.

Well one I have it in the van but secondly this is a second hand small oven for these guys and they are looking to upgrade to a bigger one later in the year when they can afford it. The trunking is temp until they re-tile the kitchen when it will be mounted in the wall. Now if the 6mm is 34A rated I can swap it over when the time comes onto a 32A MCB if need be. Just seem to make sense to me but hey what would I know I'm just a newbie at this to you oh wise great ones who proceed to flame every post that seems to be made :hurray:

 

[Adam W]

Well one I have it in the van but secondly this is a second hand small oven for these guys and they are looking to upgrade to a bigger one later in the year when they can afford it. The trunking is temp until they re-tile the kitchen when it will be mounted in the wall. Now if the 6mm is 34A rated I can swap it over when the time comes onto a 32A MCB if need be. Just seem to make sense to me but hey what would I know I'm just a newbie at this to you oh wise great ones who proceed to flame every post that seems to be made :hurray:

You didn't say the trunking was only temporary, although if they're getting the kitchen re-tiled why can't you remove the tiles and chase the cable into the wall now? A half decent tiler should be able to remove and replace the tiles as they were anyway.
6mm still seems like overkill even if they're getting a 'bigger' oven - it may be slightly bigger, but still within reason. Remember you can run most ovens off a plugtop, and you can run a 20A radial in 2.5mm, which will be a lot easier to terminate.

 

[Lazlo]

what would you guy recommend using as trunking for a surface mounted cable?

I would use trunking as trunking and I would use cable for my cable runs.......not sure I really understand this thread......Is it a wind up?

 

[Andy78]

I would use trunking as trunking and I would use cable for my cable runs.......not sure I really understand this thread......Is it a wind up?

If you see the OP's only other post apart from this thread, he has introduced himself as a do-it-all renovator having recently completed the usual Electrical Trainee glut of mostly worthless bits of paper.
Two days ago he was asking for experience as he has none, yet today he is competent enough to be working unsupervised apparently.

 

[Lagentium]

Random question time, what is the construction of the wall?

 

[davesparks]

Well one I have it in the van but secondly this is a second hand small oven for these guys and they are looking to upgrade to a bigger one later in the year when they can afford it. The trunking is temp until they re-tile the kitchen when it will be mounted in the wall. Now if the 6mm is 34A rated I can swap it over when the time comes onto a 32A MCB if need be. Just seem to make sense to me but hey what would I know I'm just a newbie at this to you oh wise great ones who proceed to flame every post that seems to be made :hurray:

What kind of oven do they have at the moment?

What kind of oven are they planning to install? How many ovens have you come across that have more than a 2.5kW element in the main oven or for the grill?
If the new oven is going to be part of kitchen remodelling and retiling etc then you'll likely be running a new supply in at that time anyway, unless you manage to follow the exact route that the chasing will take with this trunking install. And with a total distance of 0.5m from CU to switch and ~2m from switch to oven (from your OP) is it really that big a problem to run a new supply when the time comes?

Asking questions like what kind of trunking should I use is guaranteed to get a negative response as you would normally expect anyone who has gone through an apprenticeship or even the most basic training to know what trunking is available.

 

[Bear2016]

If you see the OP's only other post apart from this thread, he has introduced himself as a do-it-all renovator having recently completed the usual Electrical Trainee glut of mostly worthless bits of paper.
Two days ago he was asking for experience as he has none, yet today he is competent enough to be working unsupervised apparently.

I think you'll find it said I had done various bits but looking for more experience. Try to read a post and then get facts right before becoming a keyboard warrior!

I have NVQ5 in Mechanical Engineering a Masters in Engineering and an IEng so not too daft and have managed multi million dollar projects for offshore. But I wanted a career change and I have been renovating properties for the past 20 odd years whilst working offshore.
I have done various electrical stuff like wire in a DBB (under supervision) and the general stuff around my home and then had it checked by a Competent Person. I have worked with 3Phase equipment wiring in motors and existing electricians in the field but domestic is a lot different and I want to get it right and ensure others are safe
I did the "worthless" bits of paper so I can grow my business and once I feel I have enough experience to join a competent person scheme.
I know after doing a 4 year apprenticeship what you learn doing that is a lot different to "out there" doing hence why I was asking for further experience. For some reason you deem that as a negative thing?
I'm sorry I am not an all singing and dancing sparky such as your good self. I just hope one day if I can offer advice on the subject I would rather than try to belittle them through a keyboard

 

[Bear2016]

What kind of oven do they have at the moment?

What kind of oven are they planning to install? How many ovens have you come across that have more than a 2.5kW element in the main oven or for the grill?
If the new oven is going to be part of kitchen remodelling and retiling etc then you'll likely be running a new supply in at that time anyway, unless you manage to follow the exact route that the chasing will take with this trunking install. And with a total distance of 0.5m from CU to switch and ~2m from switch to oven (from your OP) is it really that big a problem to run a new supply when the time comes?

Asking questions like what kind of trunking should I use is guaranteed to get a negative response as you would normally expect anyone who has gone through an apprenticeship or even the most basic training to know what trunking is available.

I know what trunking is available but what have people used and why? Thats all the question ever was - I seriously wish I had left it alone and joined another forum lol

However no need to worry they have had the job professionally done for £50 by a handyman who has wired it to a plug and then into an extension lead into the ring main and said I was talking poo saying it needed to be run back to DBB.......

 

[davesparks]

I think you'll find it said I had done various bits but looking for more experience. Try to read a post and then get facts right before becoming a keyboard warrior!

I have NVQ5 in Mechanical Engineering a Masters in Engineering and an IEng so not too daft and have managed multi million dollar projects for offshore. But I wanted a career change and I have been renovating properties for the past 20 odd years whilst working offshore.
I have done various electrical stuff like wire in a DBB (under supervision) and the general stuff around my home and then had it checked by a Competent Person. I have worked with 3Phase equipment wiring in motors and existing electricians in the field but domestic is a lot different and I want to get it right and ensure others are safe
I did the "worthless" bits of paper so I can grow my business and once I feel I have enough experience to join a competent person scheme.
I know after doing a 4 year apprenticeship what you learn doing that is a lot different to "out there" doing hence why I was asking for further experience. For some reason you deem that as a negative thing?
I'm sorry I am not an all singing and dancing sparky such as your good self. I just hope one day if I can offer advice on the subject I would rather than try to belittle them through a keyboard

What's a DBB?

How are we to know what previous experience you have? All we know is that 99% of the people who do those courses come out of it a danger to themselves and other people and so we do take a negative approach to the whole subject.

 

[Bear2016]

DBB Domestic Distribution Board The old guy who supervised me brainwashed me with that every time I said Consumer Unit he would say for F**ks sake its DBB. Personally never heard anyone else call it but it stuck.

What's a DBB?

How are we to know what previous experience you have? All we know is that 99% of the people who do those courses come out of it a danger to themselves and other people and so we do take a negative approach to the whole subject.

I agree 100% I'm amazed how some passed and there is very little practical in wiring. Most of it is testing but you do the basic CU (see remembering!) and sockets but not much at all. I understand where you guys are coming from I have been given engineers offshore who have degrees and cant use a damn spanner! They'll work out the coefficient of linear expansion for you but when oil is peeing out its not much help!

 

[Leesparkykent]

DBB Domestic Distribution Board The old guy who supervised me brainwashed me with that every time I said Consumer Unit he would say for F**ks sake its DBB.

Did the old guy do a 5week course as well?

 

[Bear2016]

Did the old guy do a 5week course as well?

I was in Kent the other week, wasn't you doing the stand up comedy was it because your still on fine form

 

[Leesparkykent]

I was in Kent the other week, wasn't you doing the stand up comedy was it because your still on fine form

It could of been ;-)

 

[GMES]

Guys please keep it on track, either help the op or move on to a thread where you can help.

 

[davesparks]

DBB Domestic Distribution Board The old guy who supervised me brainwashed me with that every time I said Consumer Unit he would say for F**ks sake its DBB. Personally never heard anyone else call it but it stuck.



I agree 100% I'm amazed how some passed and there is very little practical in wiring. Most of it is testing but you do the basic CU (see remembering!) and sockets but not much at all. I understand where you guys are coming from I have been given engineers offshore who have degrees and cant use a damn spanner! They'll work out the coefficient of linear expansion for you but when oil is peeing out its not much help!

How on earth do you get DBB from domestic distribution board? Surely that would be DDB?
Either way a DB and a CU are different things, and it's getting that kind of terminology wrong that instantly marks someone down as not knowing what they are talking about.

 

[telectrix]

and here am i, thinking it was called a fuse board or FB, all these years. has it now changed because facebook has commandeered FB? :wub:

 

[GMES]

and here am i, thinking it was called a fuse board or FB, all these years. has it now changed because facebook has commandeered FB? :wub:

I would only call it a fuseboard if it contained fuses!!!

 

[telectrix]

some of the ones i've come across lately have farmer fuses. horses are limping round as their shoes have fallen off due to lack of nails.

 

[Andy78]

I think you'll find it said I had done various bits but looking for more experience. Try to read a post and then get facts right before becoming a keyboard warrior!

I have NVQ5 in Mechanical Engineering a Masters in Engineering and an IEng so not too daft and have managed multi million dollar projects for offshore. But I wanted a career change and I have been renovating properties for the past 20 odd years whilst working offshore.
I have done various electrical stuff like wire in a DBB (under supervision) and the general stuff around my home and then had it checked by a Competent Person. I have worked with 3Phase equipment wiring in motors and existing electricians in the field but domestic is a lot different and I want to get it right and ensure others are safe
I did the "worthless" bits of paper so I can grow my business and once I feel I have enough experience to join a competent person scheme.
I know after doing a 4 year apprenticeship what you learn doing that is a lot different to "out there" doing hence why I was asking for further experience. For some reason you deem that as a negative thing?
I'm sorry I am not an all singing and dancing sparky such as your good self. I just hope one day if I can offer advice on the subject I would rather than try to belittle them through a keyboard

Thanks for the clarification as to your previous experience and qualification. My previous comments were based on your forum posts which left a lot to be desired in the way of knowledge and displayed competence.

The reason I mentioned your request for experience was not to belittle it, it's a fine way of achieving competence, but to point out that you are starting out doing unsupervised jobs without the necessary experience.

I stand by my assertion that the courses you did have no bearing on the foundation knowledge required in this job and will have furnished you with little or no relevant experience. In my eyes this renders you incompetent for the tasks you are asking for help with.

I'm sorry if this makes you feel belittled but that is not my intention, I'm simply stating how things are.

 

[GMES]

some of the ones i've come across lately have farmer fuses. horses are limping round as their shoes have fallen off due to lack of nails.

Tel, I wasn't trying to be a smart ..... lol, but I genuinley would only call it a fuseboard if it was in fact full of fuses, for Domestic I always say Consumer Unit ( Not my favourite word if I'm honest ) and then Disboard in Industrial/commercial.

 

[davesparks]

Tel, I wasn't trying to be a smart ..... lol, but I genuinley would only call it a fuseboard if it was in fact full of fuses, for Domestic I always say Consumer Unit ( Not my favourite word if I'm honest ) and then Disboard in Industrial/commercial.

You don't do general domestic crap do you? Most people just about know where their fuseboard is, but they look blank when you ask for the CU

 

[Andy78]

You don't do general domestic crap do you? Most people just about know where their fuseboard is, but they look blank when you ask for the CU

Ahuh. I just call whatever it is the domestic customer is talking about, whatever they call it. Makes life so much simpler and leads to so many less blank expressions.
It could be a fuseboard, switchboard, trip thingy, light plugs, switchy wotsits, or pully clicky doodahs, it's just easier to silently figure out what it might be then point to it and say "You mean this thing here ?"

 

[Bear2016]

Thanks for the clarification as to your previous experience and qualification. My previous comments were based on your forum posts which left a lot to be desired in the way of knowledge and displayed competence.

The reason I mentioned your request for experience was not to belittle it, it's a fine way of achieving competence, but to point out that you are starting out doing unsupervised jobs without the necessary experience.

I stand by my assertion that the courses you did have no bearing on the foundation knowledge required in this job and will have furnished you with little or no relevant experience. In my eyes this renders you incompetent for the tasks you are asking for help with.

I'm sorry if this makes you feel belittled but that is not my intention, I'm simply stating how things are.

Hence the first post I ever made asking for further experience and if anybody could help!
I like I have said have done various bits, wiring in a new light circuit in a new porch we built in our renovation, changing the Fuse Board over for a CU and wiring in a new radial circuit for the sockets. I tested it and did this work under Building Control among other things we did. We needed a new TT system but I was unsure of this so I got an electrician in who did it and talked me through it.

It was all ok, passed and Building Control signed it off. Sure I referred to the regs a lot and the onsite guide and took my time over it. Something you guys would probably knock out in a couple of days but it was our renovation and I had the luxury of taking my time.

Am I competent? Do I have the knowledge? Do I have the experience? I have enough for little jobs, would I go do a full rewire? No. Would I go change someone else CU? No BUT that is where I want to be in a couple of years time but in the mean time I will carry on doing the bits in our renovations and if I need advice call an experienced guy in.

I never said "I'm a qualified electrician" I merely stated what courses I had done and they are indeed no substitute for experience. But it is a beginning to understand the testing side of it and to learn and understand the Building / Elec Regs and why things are done the way they are.

I'm 42 years old and never grew out of the "why" stage of childhood. I can't do something without understanding why first and its implications.

 

[Octopus]

Are you paying LABC to inspect this as it sounds like it comes under Part P?

 

[GMES]

You don't do general domestic crap do you? Most people just about know where their fuseboard is, but they look blank when you ask for the CU

I don't mate no, I honestly can't imagine my life as a Domestic electrician.
Ripping floor boards up and down all day
crawling around in hot lofts
up against ill trained guys who are happy to work for a pittance
Stroppy customers
customers always wanting a discount at the end of the job
Being expected to add extra points for no extra charge
Dealing with Plasterer's day in day out.
And all for couple of hundred quid a day if you're lucky

I would rather stick pins in my eyes Dave, I was talking to a Domestic lad the other day and he was wobbling about using a certain size cable and that it could add 50.00 to job which may price him out of it, if things are that bad then I feel for them. I have jobs where the difference between parts can be thousands and the customer usually says to do whichever is safest and best for the installlation. I really don't mean that to come accross as arrogant it is just the way it is ( worlds apart )

 

[Andy78]

I don't mate no, I honestly can't imagine my life as a Domestic electrician.
Ripping floor boards up and down all day
crawling around in hot lofts
up against ill trained guys who are happy to work for a pittance
Stroppy customers
customers always wanting a discount at the end of the job
Being expected to add extra points for no extra charge
Dealing with Plasterer's day in day out.
And all for couple of hundred quid a day if you're lucky

I would rather stick pins in my eyes Dave, I was talking to a Domestic lad the other day and he was wobbling about using a certain size cable and that it could add 50.00 to job which may price him out of it, if things are that bad then I feel for them. I have jobs where the difference between parts can be thousands and the customer usually says to do whichever is safest and best for the installlation. I really don't mean that to come accross as arrogant it is just the way it is ( worlds apart )

These are only the worst aspects of the job, it's by no means always like that at all. Balanced with regular commercial work and decent pricing I find all of this more than tolerable.

I have domestic customers that take that approach too and they are a pleasure to work for. In the last 12 months I have heard phrases like "We like your work and know you won't rip us off, so get to it it whatever way you think best and bill us later" a lot more often than things like "Can't you do it a bit cheaper ?"

 

[Octopus]

These are only the worst aspects of the job, it's by no means always like that at all. Balanced with regular commercial work and decent pricing I find all of this more than tolerable.

I have domestic customers that take that approach too and they are a pleasure to work for.In the last 12 months I have heard phrases like "We like your work and know you won't rip us off, so get to it it whatever way you think best and bill us later" a lot more often than things like "Can't you do it a bit cheaper ?"

I normally get "on time as usual" from my clients!

This is a compliment (I think)!

 

[davesparks]

I don't mate no, I honestly can't imagine my life as a Domestic electrician.
Ripping floor boards up and down all day
crawling around in hot lofts
up against ill trained guys who are happy to work for a pittance
Stroppy customers
customers always wanting a discount at the end of the job
Being expected to add extra points for no extra charge
Dealing with Plasterer's day in day out.
And all for couple of hundred quid a day if you're lucky

I would rather stick pins in my eyes Dave, I was talking to a Domestic lad the other day and he was wobbling about using a certain size cable and that it could add 50.00 to job which may price him out of it, if things are that bad then I feel for them. I have jobs where the difference between parts can be thousands and the customer usually says to do whichever is safest and best for the installlation. I really don't mean that to come accross as arrogant it is just the way it is ( worlds apart )

I don't blame you! I avoid general domestic work where there's any sort of builders involved as much as possible.
I've got a nice little number wiring domestic boilers for a local plumber and then it's commercial maintainence, particularly theatres, for me.
Plus of course blowing stuff up as and when I can