Part P Face and my view on it

[westward10]

So just been to see sister in law who has had her en suite redone, electrics done by bathroom peoples "electrician". So no rcd protection, cpcs unconnected at fan isolator, flex for cabinet lights on unenclosed block connector in wall cavity, underfloor heating and a new socket for the bedroom both on a radial from the existing ring final with no circuit protection but this bit does have existing additional rcd protection. I wanted to pull a downlight out but didn't want to damage the ceiling, dread to think how they are connected. Apparently they have finished and will be sending her a Certificate for Part P compliance, not on my watch he won't be. He is going to rue the day he opened his tool box in that house.

 

[Specialist]

Now now Westward, You know a part pee compliance certificate will make everything right

 

[LankyWill]

Are you going to make them put their mistakes right or do it yourself? You could stand over them and berrate them at the same time. Just shows that scams are pointless and give every have a go hero a chance to call themselves an electrician.

 

[Pete999]

Westies experience just goes to show what the scams are all about, doesn't it? as long as you are prepared to pay the dues anyone can join, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the reason this particular outfit got admission to the scam, was a scam in it's own right by the bathroom company. Get a decent Electrician to do a couple of jobs for them, use these jobs as inspection jobs, then get Kevin the kitchen guy and Bill the bathroom guy to do the rest after admission to said scam. They should be exposed, the scams I mean.

 

[Octopus]

Sxd the part p cert..... What you need to see are the mwc's for the work done..... Then compare results ......if differences, then a report to the scheme....

 

[Pete999]

Sxd the part p cert..... What you need to see are the mwc's for the work done..... Then compare results ......if differences, then a report to the scheme....

Great idea Murdoch, but I believe rightly or wrongly that the Scams will club together and cover their proverbial assets, I think what is needed is a Government investigation, after all it was only after one of their own got injured, that they set this fiasco in motion. What is needed is quality evidence, documented cases where the Part P thing has been misused, not individual anecdotal hearsay, a petition maybe to a local MP, with pressure to escalate it up to Cabinet level, up the revolution. The scams have been picking Electricians pockets for years now, about time the truth was exposed.

 

[Risteard]

Sxd the part p cert..... What you need to see are the mwc's for the work done..... Then compare results ......if differences, then a report to the scheme....

In fairness the test results don't have to be nonsense to report them - inspection is the most important part of the inspection and testing process, so there is ample ammunition from the visual inspections to report them (although I guess that they will be given the opportunity to correct the work before action is taken).

 

[Pete999]

In fairness the test results don't have to be nonsense to report them - inspection is the most important part of the inspection and testing process, so there is ample ammunition from the visual inspections to report them (although I guess that they will be given the opportunity to correct the work before action is taken).

You're right they will be given the opportunity to correct their lash ups, but ask the question, should they or should the be exposed NOW? not much reporting them to themselves is it?

 

[Octopus]

In fairness the test results don't have to be nonsense to report them - inspection is the most important part of the inspection and testing process, so there is ample ammunition from the visual inspections to report them (although I guess that they will be given the opportunity to correct the work before action is taken).

The certificates "description of works" would make interesting reading.....

 

[Loki]

You could always email [email protected] & see if rouge traders get involved.
Name & shame them for shoddy work.
Just an idea

Michael

 

[jackhammerJIM]

hopefully she hasn't paid in full ...

 

[westward10]

Thanks for the replies had to pop out. Going to put together an email for the bathroom company noting my concerns with hopefully a meet with monkey on site. I did wonder how rcd protection would be provided because there is a Wylex NB split load board which doesn't take rcbos, well they just didn't bother and it is worrying how many other properties they have done this in. I have told her to withhold payment but I need to carefully word something without saying what I really feel. When I showed her how he had connected the cabinet lights with block connector in the cavity she did say he said it was tricky to connect! It came with a flex from the top, well difficult just stick an outlet plate in. I will try and keep you posted on events.

 

[Pete999]

Thanks for the replies had to pop out. Going to put together an email for the bathroom company noting my concerns with hopefully a meet with monkey on site. I did wonder how rcd protection would be provided because there is a Wylex NB split load board which doesn't take rcbos, well they just didn't bother and it is worrying how many other properties they have done this in. I have told her to withhold payment but I need to carefully word something without saying what I really feel. When I showed her how he had connected the cabinet lights with block connector in the cavity she did say he said it was tricky to connect! It came with a flex from the top, well difficult just stick an outlet plate in. I will try and keep you posted on events.

Thanks Westie

 

[Ian1981]

Westies experience just goes to show what the scams are all about, doesn't it? as long as you are prepared to pay the dues anyone can join, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the reason this particular outfit got admission to the scam, was a scam in it's own right by the bathroom company. Get a decent Electrician to do a couple of jobs for them, use these jobs as inspection jobs, then get Kevin the kitchen guy and Bill the bathroom guy to do the rest after admission to said scam. They should be exposed, the scams I mean.

agree pete, unfortunately the schemes dont randomly select jobs to inspect, the contractor tells them what jobs he's done and can basically show them the 'good installs' by the good lads and not bother with the shi*e ones!

 

[Ian1981]

Thanks for the replies had to pop out. Going to put together an email for the bathroom company noting my concerns with hopefully a meet with monkey on site. I did wonder how rcd protection would be provided because there is a Wylex NB split load board which doesn't take rcbos, well they just didn't bother and it is worrying how many other properties they have done this in. I have told her to withhold payment but I need to carefully word something without saying what I really feel. When I showed her how he had connected the cabinet lights with block connector in the cavity she did say he said it was tricky to connect! It came with a flex from the top, well difficult just stick an outlet plate in. I will try and keep you posted on events.

I just know the guys gonna feel 2 foot tall when your finished with him

 

[Pete999]

agree pete, unfortunately the schemes dont randomly select jobs to inspect, the contractor tells them what jobs he's done and can basically show them the 'good installs' by the good lads and not bother with the shi*e ones!

Exactly, a fit up all around.

 

[Pete999]

I just know the guys gonna feel 2 foot tall when your finished with him

Why don't we make him feel 2ft under, kin waster

 

[Octopus]

One well known national bathroom company think it's perfectly acceptable to vent bathrooms into the loft space!

 

[Pete999]

One well known national bathroom company think it's perfectly acceptable to vent bathrooms into the loft space!

Just a point of interest, how many schemes, certifying organisations are there within the "Gas safe" certification method? is it just the one, or are there similar money making cadres like the electrical industry?

 

[Ian1981]

One well known national bathroom company think it's perfectly acceptable to vent bathrooms into the loft space!

Some new builds you can only vent through the loft into the sofit as bathroom is not on an external wall but insulated foil duct is used.
I've never thought much of it to be honest.

 

[Anthony S]

Some new builds you can only vent through the loft into the sofit as bathroom is not on an external wall but insulated foil duct is used.
I've never thought much of it to be honest.

He means vent into a loft space without an external vent to the outer elements.

 

[Ian1981]

He means vent into a loft space without an external vent to the outer elements.

Oh right sorry

 

[Anthony S]

Oh right sorry

No worries

 

[7029 dave]

It has all gone to pot, this trade is in a right old mess, cash cows coining it in,it don't mean jack.I was one of the lucky to have worked in this industry in the good old days.!

 

[Octopus]

Some new builds you can only vent through the loft into the sofit as bathroom is not on an external wall but insulated foil duct is used.
I've never thought much of it to be honest.

The muppets I refer to just vent into the loft, no external route, nothing...

 

[Wilko]

Sorry to hear that Westie, I'm glad you're there to sort it.
I do my work the best I know, and if I don't know, I'll ask (hence some of my dumb questions here...). Just wondering, do we think these folks know better but couldn't be bothered, or ?

 

[Midwest]

The muppets I refer to just vent into the loft, no external route, nothing...

Problem is some 'customers' can't see anything wrong in that. Had a customer this week suggesting such, when I recommended a contractor to put a roof vent for his new bathroom extractor fan, 'it'll be alright'!

 

[telectrix]

customers are happy with a loft that's boiling hot in summer and freezing cold in winter as long as they save a few quid on the gas bill. why not be happy to have it damp as well? anyway, the 3 foot thick insulation will soak it up for the next 25 years, when it's time to rip it all out because it's then branded as a health risk.

 

[Anthony S]

It has all gone to pot, this trade is in a right old mess, cash cows coining it in,it don't mean jack.I was one of the lucky to have worked in this industry in the good old days.!

Its rife out there with chancer's who believe they are electricians and don't know why they install xyz and can not test their own work.

 

[westward10]

I try and avoid doing things for friends and family unless it is an emergency and I could have done this and notified it through the company I work for and my boss would have okayed it. But she said they use a good electrician who is Part P registered but I was actually quite shocked by the standard of work. I dread to think how he has connected from the existing ring final for the socket and underfloor heating spur. Our industry has gone to pot and the choice of getting the contractor back to correct works he has made such a hash of as opposed to directly contacting his scheme provider first is a joke.

 

[Pete999]

I'm afraid the sort of carp everyone is complaining about won't go away until qither some gets hurt, or someone collates the info and goes into print to the people that can do something about it, we all moan but do nowt.

 

[telectrix]

shame we're not an ethnic minority, then diane abrott would gob off in parliament.

 

[Ian1981]

The muppets I refer to just vent into the loft, no external route, nothing...

Unbelievable

 

[Octopus]

Unbelievable

Precisely

in the middle of the winter, pumping hot mist air into a cold loft s only going to create ..... damp....

 

[paul291277]

Interesting point Pete, but surely it can only be advantageous, costwise/servicewise to us sparks to have a little bit of competition from them

 

[Rpa07]

If you could see electricity leaking it would all be different. That's why there are probably not so many chancers in the plumbing industry because it's so obvious if it doesn't work, same with gas you'll smell it.
Leccy is silent until it all goes Pete tong and 'Turkey water park' happens.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Just a point of interest, how many schemes, certifying organisations are there within the "Gas safe" certification method? is it just the one, or are there similar money making cadres like the electrical industry?

I think it is just gas safe the one set up that has a government awarded contract. if electrics went that way then you could almost guarantee niceic would get it and then would have a captive market to charge what ever crazy price they like. at least with likes of stroma, napit etc.. they have to at least try and compete.. i actually would not want just one regulator as they would screw us over.. the annual costs of these schemes are only going up.. like any business they charge what they think the market will support. with no competition they are a law unto themselves.

 

[Risteard]

would have a captive market to charge what ever crazy price they like.

In all likelihood if it was a licence handed out by central government to operate the only scheme then they would not be able to run it for a profit and as the only scheme operating would be able to operate it cheaper than with multiple schemes due to the increased numbers of contractors registered.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

In all likelihood if it was a licence handed out by central government to operate the only scheme then they would not be able to run it for a profit and as the only scheme operating would be able to operate it cheaper than with multiple schemes due to the increased numbers of contractors registered.

is Certsure Llp the people who run niceic and elecsa supposedly non for profit as its a partnership between the ECA and electrical safety first... i might be wrong..

i would like to think though if there was just one body overseeing electricians then it would be for non profit and actually enforce standards and deal with cowboys too.

 

[streamer]

Maybe we should all club together and start another scheme - it seems anyone can do it! Licence to print money! But then I think a good conscience would get in the way of actually admitting enough members.