Shower on Ceiling Light Flickers - advice needed please

[guest1010]

Hello, I am not an electrician. I don't normally post on forums but I'm at breaking point with this situation and require some advice please.

Our new shower was installed earlier this year. Since it was installed when you press the new shower on the ceiling light in the bathroom flickers (strobe like) as does the ceiling lights on the landing and small bedroom (all on the right side of the house.)

No other lights flicker when the shower is on anywhere in the house and the bathroom light doesn't flicker at any other time when it is on (only when the shower is on.) We have changed the light bulb in bathroom and it's still flickering only when the shower is on.

When the shower is turned off the flickering stops immediately, however, the shower is on one consumer board and all ceiling lights are on a separate consumer board. We have been told the cable is correct for the connection of the shower.

With the old shower there was only a small dip in the ceiling light when it was turned on similar to when we put on our hoover and our downstairs table lamp dips in light once. We have been told this dip (or blink) of light is normal due to the load it uses.

We use a 25watt incandescent bulb in the bathroom. We use these bulbs as a family member has seizures to LED and fluorescent lights and can't use any other bulbs. We are aware they are no longer available to buy.

I've had 3 electricians out and also the local electric board to test equipment and they are sending us round in circles (electrician says everything is working normal and it's a supply issue and supply says it's a electricians issue as there are no supply faults.) Our meter doesn't reflect any issues so the electric supplier won't send any one out to look at their equipment other than the replace the existing meter.

We need to have a new hob and oven installed and the electrician has said we can't do that until we find what is causing the flickering issue, however, the electrician has said he cannot find the issue even though the flickering is visible and he has seen it. He has told us to keep a diary of when the flickering occurs (but it is only when the shower is turned on that it happens.)

The shower company cannot help us with this as they are only for installing and repairs even though we have told them it started when the new shower was installed.

Can anyone advise what I need to be either doing or asking because I'm at a loss on what to do and just want to get the house back to our normality again. I am not going to do any work on this as I am not an electrician.

Many thanks for your time with my query.

 

[Octopus]

I'd be looking for a loose neutral ....................if it didn't do it before the shower was fitted, on the shower circuit or fuseboard.

I don't see why this issue is holding up fitting a new hob and oven.

 

[guest1010]

I'd be looking for a loose neutral ....................if it didn't do it before the shower was fitted, on the shower circuit or fuseboard.

I don't see why this issue is holding up fitting a new hob and oven.

Hi Murdoch, Many thanks for your reply.

Would there be any reason why it's happening considering they are on separate consumer boards?

The reason for the hob/oven was the electrician told us that we couldn't change anything until we found out what causing the flickering.

Again, with thanks.

 

[Deleted account]

Hi showerq,
I would not advise you to look for the loose neutral. I would get the spark back who fitted the shower.

Cheers

 

[guest1010]

Hi showerq,
I would not advise you to look for the loose neutral. I would get the spark back who fitted the shower.

Cheers

Hi Paignton pete, Many thanks for your reply.

I will not be touching anything, however, the shower company who installed it are refusing to comment or do anything about the ceiling lights flickering which only started when they installed the shower.

We cannot get an electrician to help us until we find out what is causing the flickering and the electric supplier and electric board won't help either.

 

[Wilko]

Hi - question from left field - are these led lights that are flickering? If so, can you swop one for an old fashioned incandescent lamp and report?
Edit - oops - just read that they're 25W incandescent. End of that thought.

 

[guest1010]

Hi - question from left field - are these led lights that are flickering? If so, can you swop one for an old fashioned incandescent lamp and report?

Hi Wilko, Many thanks for your reply.

No LED in the house at all. Family member has seizures from them.

 

[Deleted account]

Did they leave any certification when they fitted the shower?

Do you have a split board?( does it have a main switch and 2 rcd's?)
If so is the light circuit that's flickering on the same rcd as the shower?

As for you cannot get the electrician to return untill you know what's causing the flickering. You cannot know what's causing the flickering until you get the electrician.

Go back to the installation company and insist they return or contact there registration body. They will insist they return.

Cheers

 

[plugsandsparks]

It could well be a loose neutral or live and could even be at the service head or meter, which could be why an electrician cannot find it. Sadly the service head is managed by one company, the meter by another and after the meter its an electrician. If it was my house i would have checked all connections at the meter and service head but sadly that breaks a number of rules in the industry which could have un-desireable outcomes for whoever does it.
If the electrician has checked all connections from shower to board and all connections between boards, a meter man has to check the 4 connections on his meter and then the local network supplier has to check his connections in the service head, thats the correct method.
Good Luck

 

[Deleted account]

One other point I must make. It may be that the flickering lights have absolutely nothing to do with the work on the shower.

It may be a total coincidence.

If the company do return and find this you will be liable to pay for any works.

I'm just trying to look at this from both perspectives.

However I do think the company should have returned to check this out of common courtesy and customer service.

Cheers

 

[Octopus]

Did the bathroom company install the 2nd fuseboard?

If the did, and you are in England or Wales they need to provide you with part p compliance certificate and an EIC

 

[guest1010]

Many thanks to all for the replies. I shall find out and reply once I know. Again, thank you.

 

[Octopus]

Many thanks to all for the replies. I shall find out and reply once I know. Again, thank you.

Don’t phone them, email or write to them, then they are obliged to respond in writing

 

[Midwest]

With the old shower there was only a small dip in the ceiling light when it was turned on similar to when we put on our hoover and our downstairs table lamp dips in light once. We have been told this dip (or blink) of light is normal due to the load it uses.

I would go with the possibility there's something wrong with the supply.

Have your supply company etc, got their tools out and checked their equipement?

 

[grantr37]

Does the shower have a pump?

 

[Pete999]

Probably as others have mentioned, one or two questions, it's only happened since you had a new shower fitted? is the new shower bigger in Electrical terms, ie what size was the old one what size is the new one in KWs ie 8KW etc did the shower fitters rewire the shower from the fuseboard?
Could be a Loose N or if the shower is larger in KWs, it could be causing voltage drop on your entire installation. You may need to ask the Electricians you have employed to fit a power analizer for a few weeks, or write to your Power supplier to monitor your supply, sounds like the Power supplier is washing their hands out of hand, if however the the Shower is a lorger KW one you may need to have your Shower rewired with a larger cable, of course these conclusions are from a distance nothing better than a hands on investigation, how did the numerous electricians come to the conclusion that all is OK, did they carry out any testing.?

 

[guest1010]

Hello, I shall reply in one post and again many thanks for your replies and help (your questions are in bold):

To: Paignton pete:

Did they leave any certification when they fitted the shower? No. We were given a bill and 1 year guarantee (installed in January) and a manual. The new shower was to replace the old shower which they had originally installed and wasn't able to be repaired.

Do you have a split board?( does it have a main switch and 2 rcd's?) No.

If so is the light circuit that's flickering on the same rcd as the shower? No. They are on separate consumer boards which is why the electrician has told us he cannot figure out why this is happening.

Go back to the installation company and insist they return or contact there registration body. They will insist they return. I have asked them the name of the registration body (Thank you as I wasn't aware of this.)

However I do think the company should have returned to check this out of common courtesy and customer service. The shower company were going to install a new shower as we are under guarantee, however, now they won't and will only repair the shower again (it keeps whistling when the water is on in addition to the flickering lights.) They have been out over 5 times since January to fix and replace parts including new solenoids, washers and ball values. We are awaiting a reply from a regional manager but again they are refusing to help about the flickering lights.

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To: plugsandsparks:

It could well be a loose neutral or live and could even be at the service head or meter, which could be why an electrician cannot find it.

Sadly the service head is managed by one company, the meter by another and after the meter its an electrician.

What is the service head? and who would this be - electrician, electric supplier or electric board? I am sorry, however, I have never heard of a service head before.

----------------------------------------------------

To: Murdoch:

Did the bathroom company install the 2nd fuseboard? The original shower company, who are no longer in existence, installed it when we had the shower installed about 15 years ago. The new shower company installed the previous shower (to replace the original one) and the new shower in January (to replace the one they originally installed.)

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To: Midwest:

I would go with the possibility there's something wrong with the supply.

Have your supply company etc, got their tools out and checked their equipement?

They have come out but the person they sent was not an electrical contractor. He said the consumer board was "ticking" and that was the fault, however, he didn't realise the ticking was actually the electric supplier's meter that was ticking as the numbers went round when the shower was on (it is a mechanical meter not digital.) It has taken us nearly a month to get the electric board to agree to send someone else out to check their equipment again as prior to this they were not willing to and said they were satisfied with the work the person who came out did.

----------------------------------------------------

To: grantr37:
Does the shower have a pump? No. It has an isolation pull cord which is linked to a fan. You pull that and then press a button on the shower to turn the shower on. After about 10-15 seconds the ceiling light flickers in the bathroom and doesn't stop until the shower is pressed off as do all the ceiling lights on that side of the house. This only started on the day the new shower was installed.

----------------------------------------------------

To: Pete999:
Probably as others have mentioned, one or two questions, it's only happened since you had a new shower fitted? is the new shower bigger in Electrical terms, ie what size was the old one what size is the new one in KWs ie 8KW etc did the shower fitters rewire the shower from the fuseboard?

The shower is 9.5KW from the manual which is the same as the old shower they replaced as they can only install like for like. They didn't do any rewiring as far as we are aware.

Could be a Loose N or if the shower is larger in KWs, it could be causing voltage drop on your entire installation. You may need to ask the Electricians you have employed to fit a power analizer for a few weeks, or write to your Power supplier to monitor your supply, sounds like the Power supplier is washing their hands out of hand, if however the the Shower is a lorger KW one you may need to have your Shower rewired with a larger cable, of course these conclusions are from a distance nothing better than a hands on investigation,

The electrical supplier are refusing to check the meter installed and will only replace the meter for a more modern on. They say our bills don't reflect any issues at all, however, no one from the electrical supplier have been out to check.

how did the numerous electricians come to the conclusion that all is OK, did they carry out any testing.?
Yes. The electricians went through the house and did tests. They left all the lights on while testing. They checked both consumer boards and made sure the wiring was tight. But the last electrician we had out has said until we find the cause of the flickering there is nothing more he can do as for him our electrics are safe. He did see the flickering while he was here with his workmate.


Thank you again for all your help.

 

[Wilko]

Hi - the company may have their Electrical registration listed on their website or paperwork. If you're interested someone here may be nearby and be able to have a look at the issue close up.

 

[telectrix]

alaerm bells ringing. why is a fan running off the shower circuit, unless it had been designed as such by manufacturers?

 

[telectrix]

echo wilko's post #18. post your location.

 

[Deleted account]

Thanks showerq for the brilliant detailed reply. From everything I've read I suspect it's down the the supply companies, but I could be wrong. It's difficult to diagnose from afar. I really wish you all the luck.

I am a I little concerned you didn't get any certification.

Cheers peter

 

[guest1010]

Hi - the company may have their Electrical registration listed on their website or paperwork. If you're interested someone here may be nearby and be able to have a look at the issue close up.

Hi Wilko,

I've contacted NICEIC and ELECSA (who I was told are the same company from the man I spoke to at their technical dept.) and also ECA. They have all said contact the electric board as it sounds like a supply issue. Hopefully now they have agreed to send someone out again they can let us know. If all is fine (and I hope so) then I don't know what our next step is.

 

[littlespark]

Did the shower installer walk away without operating the shower? The lights must have been flickering straight away. That should have told the installer something was a miss.
It may be that they have installed something larger than was there before, but that would dim the lights, not cause a flicker.

The shower pull cord is linked to a fan? For extraction? These are normally wired in with the lighswitch rather than the shower.

If you can, please post a photograph of your shower and your consumer unit/meter/etc. (ps, the service head is where the supply cable goes through a big fuse, and normally is sealed so us mortals cannot tamper)

We don't want to badmouth any company on the public forum, so don't name them.

 

[guest1010]

Thanks showerq for the brilliant detailed reply. From everything I've read I suspect it's down the the supply companies, but I could be wrong. It's difficult to diagnose from afar. I really wish you all the luck.

I am a I little concerned you didn't get any certification.

Cheers peter

Many thanks again, Peter.

I shall ask they shower company for the certificate. Fingers crossed and again many thanks to you all.

 

[Pete999]

Did the shower installer walk away without operating the shower? The lights must have been flickering straight away. That should have told the installer something was a miss.
It may be that they have installed something larger than was there before, but that would dim the lights, not cause a flicker.

The shower pull cord is linked to a fan? For extraction? These are normally wired in with the lighswitch rather than the shower.

If you can, please post a photograph of your shower and your consumer unit/meter/etc. (ps, the service head is where the supply cable goes through a big fuse, and normally is sealed so us mortals cannot tamper)

We don't want to badmouth any company on the public forum, so don't name them.

Flicker and Dim may mean the same to some Mate, before we start why not wait until the OP comes back with answers to the questions posed, I've seen dafter things than what I am questioning, and of course we are all diagnosing the problem from afar.

 

[guest1010]

Did the shower installer walk away without operating the shower? The lights must have been flickering straight away. That should have told the installer something was a miss.
It may be that they have installed something larger than was there before, but that would dim the lights, not cause a flicker.

The shower pull cord is linked to a fan? For extraction? These are normally wired in with the lighswitch rather than the shower.

If you can, please post a photograph of your shower and your consumer unit/meter/etc. (ps, the service head is where the supply cable goes through a big fuse, and normally is sealed so us mortals cannot tamper)

We don't want to badmouth any company on the public forum, so don't name them.

Hi Littlespark, Thanks for your reply.

They tested the shower before they left, however, the flickering only started in the evening on the day it was installed.

I recorded the whistle and played it as it didn't happen when they were here. A few hours later after they replaced the washers, solenoid and ball valve the same whistle happen again and is continuing when the shower is on as is the lights flickering. We are waiting for them to come out and look at it again.

Thank you about the pull cord - we shall double check as no one has mentioned or suggested that before. Thank you.

 

[telectrix]

@littlespark. ain't you ever heard of the seal fairy? .

(ps, the service head is where the supply cable goes through a big fuse, and normally is sealed so us mortals cannot tamper)

 

[Wilko]

... If all is fine (and I hope so) then I don't know what our next step is.

Certainly don't despair, as what's made by man, can be fixed by man. Just maybe not the fine folks you've been blessed with so far.

 

[Deleted account]

alaerm bells ringing. why is a fan running off the shower circuit, unless it had been designed as such by manufacturers?

O dear. I've seen this before. Extractor permanent live and neutral fed from lighting circuit. Switched live from shower.
It functionally worked fine at the address I was at but obviously wrong.

This property was previously owned by a builder. He had done a lot of interesting things including the shower run off 2.5 mm. I've no idea how it coped, but the cable was fine, no evidence of overheating. This turned into a full rewire of the whole house as the socket circuits and lighting were a joke too. First time I've made a customer cry when going over what I'd found.

 

[guest1010]

Certainly don't despair, as what's made by man, can be fixed by man. Just maybe not the fine folks you've been blessed with so far.

You are certainly right. I'm lost what to do and I think I'm actually past breaking point. I won't mention the names of the companies but their attitudes is very difficult to cope with.

 

[guest1010]

O dear. I've seen this before. Extractor permanent live and neutral fed from lighting circuit. Switched live from shower.
It functionally worked fine at the address I was at but obviously wrong.

This property was previously owned by a builder. He had done a lot of interesting things including the shower run off 2.5 mm. I've no idea how it coped, but the cable was fine, no evidence of overheating. This turned into a full rewire of the whole house as the socket circuits and lighting were a joke too. First time I've made a customer cry when going over what I'd found.

I will ask the shower company about the pull cord when they come out, however, it won't be for another 3 weeks due to their workload.

I am very grateful to you all for all your replies. Thank you again and I shall post again once we know a reply from the shower company or electric board.

 

[guest1010]

O dear. I've seen this before. Extractor permanent live and neutral fed from lighting circuit. Switched live from shower.
It functionally worked fine at the address I was at but obviously wrong.

This property was previously owned by a builder. He had done a lot of interesting things including the shower run off 2.5 mm. I've no idea how it coped, but the cable was fine, no evidence of overheating. This turned into a full rewire of the whole house as the socket circuits and lighting were a joke too. First time I've made a customer cry when going over what I'd found.

I will ask the shower company about the pull cord when they come out, however, it won't be for another 3 weeks due to their workload.

Sorry this is a double post.

 

[freddo]

Hope you get it sorted, had a similar fault, high resistance neutral on joint to overhead cable.

 

[littlespark]

Lol. That video needs a pumping choon as a backing track

 

[Pete999]

Just to put my mind at ease, what size was the old Shower? what size ie the new one?

 

[guest1010]

Hope you get it sorted, had a similar fault, high resistance neutral on joint to overhead cable.

It is not as flickering like that, however, it is visible and the electrician has seen it flicker.

 

[guest1010]

Just to put my mind at ease, what size was the old Shower? what size ie the new one?

The old one was a 9.5kw standard shower.

The new one is 9.5kw care shower.

The shower company has assured us that they are the same and the cables are all okay.

They are refusing to comment on the flickering though.

 

[Pete999]

The old one was a 9.5kw standard shower.

The new one is 9.5kw care shower.

The shower company has assured us that they are the same and the cables are all okay.

They are refusing to comment on the flickering though.

Thanks Mate then I will go along with a dodgy N somewhere, switch, Shower, also as others concerned with the fan linked with the Shower, can you name the company that fitted the shower by PM if you want to that is. The certificate you have requested, that must have caused a few heart flutter within the shower company. A bit like a lot of Kitchen fitting outfits, as long as it works, jobs a goodun.

 

[Midwest]

OP from your detailed response it might not be aimed squarely at your supply, as said by telectrix. But as you had a similar issue before the new shower was installed, similarly it just can't be leveed to the new shower.

Something is amiss hear, and it might not be the shower. You might have to start at the beginning again in terms of investigation.

PS dismiss the actual electric shower appliance, as historic events have proved, its not the instigator. Somethings wrong in your supply or wiring installation.

 

[Richard Burns]

The initial dip in a light when a high powered appliance is turned on is quite common as the voltage will drop when the heavy load is applied, it probably shouldn't but often does.
Generally a continuing flicker in the power supply tends to indicate a loose connection that is sparking somewhat and causing the power to go on and off. This would usually be before any split of power to the heavy appliance and whatever is flickering, however with a 9.5kW shower it may be that the shower is just causing the starting flick every time is goes on and off within it's own circuit.
If the problem is due to the incoming supply then it would likely have happened before with the previous shower.
I would tend to concentrate my attention to the point at which the two consumer units are separated and any wiring before that back to your main fuse.
However because this is a new shower the initial inspection would be to check the security of the wiring connections within the shower and work back from there. The whine may also be symptomatic of the shower turning on and off rapidly, though this may not be obvious.
The fan being connected to the shower is also a worry, but unless there are loose connections is unlikely to be the cause of the fault.