17th edition Split board issues.

[SafetyFirst]

That would have been my First check i would have made, with the conditions you have described... even to if it was only eliminate the borrowed neutral senerio. So, what are you going to do, if the lights upstairs suddenly start working again, when you combine all the lighting circuits??

I'm not going down the road of rewiring mate. I'll just keep it that side, further investigating would mean in all probability after testing ripping upstairs flooring up, guess what it's chipboard and they've carpeted now also.

I had a right chew on installing the kitchen spots, me mate's friend volunteered to make access to floor above ceiling and made a mess of the chipboard floor.

If it is a BN i'll explain this to my mate. This is a home he'll have for years anyways, he's already said he's not moving ever again!Lol. He knows not to touch electrics, he's not a diy person. It'll need rewiring before i have to find where/if its borrowed.

It's one of these jobs that nowt's went straight forward.

 

[SafetyFirst]

Is it possible that part of the downstairs lighting is on with the upstairs lighting (hallway maybe) ?, and this is why it was split, rather than anything to do with current rating.

It is still possible that you have an incorrectly placed/borrowed neutral,

I have seen this before, usually on a TNC-S system, as the imbalance is not always great enough to trip until a certain amount of loading takes place.

So if i run tests and find no low/abnormal readings, what then?

 

[spark 68]

Well what I would do,
and what others have already said, is to switch off all of the MCB's, lift all of the neutrals for each circuit out of the board, and then IR test between the circuits, that way you may only end up with two out of the three lighting circuits on one side (which you probably would have done anyway), but more importantly the correct two.

This is a good lesson as to why you should at least carry out a quick test before changing the board, as this then highlights any issues you may face, and you can decide on the corrective action to take beforehand.


You should always know what you are going to do, as there is nothing worse than the situation you now face, especially when you are faced with a whingey customer who says 'it was alright before, it worked for X amount of years' and refuses to pay you for the extra work.

I made this very sort of mistake very early on, and then vowed it would never happen again.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

I reckon clue is in your posts 9 & 17 as pointed out the light are a hot favourite for jobs like this, esp if you start mixing them up.


Nowt to add really except you'll only do it this way once ) i did like spark68. Long time ago.

 

[Octopus]

What test equipment do you have at your disposal? What tests have you actually done?

 

[Hawk81]

I just think its ironic that the op's name is safteyfirst yet he has left a house with sockets with no RCD protection. The kitchen too!

 

[perrymetcalf]

hey really sorry to cut your conversation but can anyone tell me how to write a new thread please ?

 

[telectrix]

hey really sorry to cut your conversation but can anyone tell me how to write a new thread please ? choose an appropriate forum....... click on the "post new thread" tab....... enter title...... then post.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Outside light installed and DIY installer found he was missing a neutral so borrowed it from the ring?

 

[telectrix]

only way is to dis. all cables from CU. test them individually, test for any cross connections. then connect up and power up each circuit 1 at a time.

 

[SafetyFirst]

I just think its ironic that the op's name is safteyfirst yet he has left a house with sockets with no RCD protection. The kitchen too!

Well i was waiting for someone smarmy to bring that up. I best change my username then eh?

What you guys must remember is this aint a client i've left in a pickle, it's a friend who was with me whilst i had the problem and i've fully explained it to him and his wife. What everyone must realise is that nothing can be more dangerous as it was before, i have not re-wired the place so if there's a borrowed neutral then thats existed long before they bought the house.

I've improved the safety of the house as now all but two cct's are protected by an RCD, unlike just two as before!


Btw there was a time before RCD's infact even before earthing in lighting design so did everything stop in those days?

If daylight never ran out and had more time i'd have ran tests but my mate just wanted everything on for the time being so TEMPORARILY i've by passed RCD for two cct's.

Arrest me, lock me up and throw away the key.

I work during the week and next time i'll have a chance with daylight is sat morning!

 

[Hawk81]

I take great offence at being called smarmy!

 

[SafetyFirst]

Thanks everyone for your help especially spark68. I hold my hands up on this i should have ran tests proir but have went gung ho hoping all would be ok. If i had my own business i'd have been at this place for a few days but with working mon-fri and popping over every now and then the time isn't there to get things done as i would like.

I know this is dragging it out now, i'll make sure i at least IR test everything before i undertake another board change.

Thing is i really never expected a problem on any of the rings as they originally were RCD protected. *confused*

 

[SafetyFirst]

I take great offence at being called smarmy!

Please try not to lose sleep over it. I won't.

It's true though.

 

[1shortcircuit]

If daylight never ran out and had more time i'd have ran tests but my mate just wanted everything on for the time being

You may be interested in looking at my thread " Fed up with working in the dark "

:thumbsup

 

[SafetyFirst]

You may be interested in looking at my thread " Fed up with working in the dark "

:thumbsup

Where is it?

Link plz 1SC i'm lazy as you can already tell by this RCD board change failure lol.

 

[1shortcircuit]

Where is it?

Link plz 1SC i'm lazy as you can already tell by this RCD board change failure lol.

Uno Linko

 

[SafetyFirst]

Right guys, i'm going first thing in the morn to run some tests ie IR (megga) tests etc. I'm going to unplug all sockets proir to testing ring mains. As for the lighting cct's, there's some fancy lights i've now installed including spots with transformers so to save on time rather than disconnecting each lamp and connections to transformers i'm going to avoid testing between L-N, just run IR tests between L-E and N-E.

This is the norm in this situation guys?

I'll flick two way landing light sw also and re-test.

Anything else you guys recommend?

 

[SafetyFirst]

Update:- Have been today and did some testing.

No borrowed neutrals exist.

Tried all lighting on same neutral side upstairs lights still weren't happy fed via the RCD, cct tripped straight away as before. Still works with MCB with no RCD protection.

Tested Kitchen ring, wirings sound good IR results and went round with martindales, all skts wired correctly. Transferred ring onto RCD protected side, powered up and plugged and tested each appliance one at a time. Had no problems. (It was very cold last week during board change), possibly had lower IR back then with damp, or there may still be an issue when i come to place 2nd RCD back into board and have rings on seperate RCD's (imbalance issue?) as ideally i want upstairs lighting with downstairs kitchen ring and downstairs lighting with upstairs + (rest of house) ring.

Downstairs lights wiring sound.

Upstairs lights, very low reading between E-N (short), L-E not so clever either of just 28Mohms. Wonder if i have a dodgy JB/light fitting somewhere. Have investigated on suite upstairs inc shaver socket, light fitting connections weren't great but wasn't that. Left in connector block as they need a new light fitting.

Had to leave job earlier than would have liked, back there tomorrow. Normally i'd split the cct in half but as i don't know how it's been wired i'm just checking existing points of interest that i never ammended. Have yet to check spotlights in toilet, loft light and outside lights so there will hopefully be something within them. If not it's a mistake i've made somewhere in fitting the new lights upstairs. Failing that.......which i'm dreading is that all lights are wired soundly and fault exists somewhere i can't get at ie within walls or under floors. Eeeek what's the score if thats the case then? Rewire? I'd love to but thats the last thing the homeowners would want. Surely if tested this would be an instant fail? If left on normal MCB way unprotected by an RCD working but with a fault somewhere? Potentially dangerous and something i'd not like left.

Oh and the smoke detector cct has a very low reading between L-N. Hopefully thats just a dodgy smoke head, otherwise i'll just advise them getting battery fitted one's. Not good but only option if wirings dodgy.

Never again am i not going to test existing wiring before even changing a single socket or switch!!!

I've learnt my lesson........ the hard way!

Anymore advice forthcoming would be much appreciated cheers.

 

[Des 56]

Did you carry out an insulation resistance test between live and neutral with the smoke alarms inserted ?