"Domestic installer " due to be binned?

[LukeD]

heard that the powers that be want the "domestic installers" course binned?

 

[polaroid]

Who are the "powers that be" and any references for this information?

Only thing I've heard in relation to DI is that the NICEIC (not sure about the other CPS') are changing their entry requirements for the domestic installers scheme so from Sept this year an NVQ level 3 or equivalent is required, effectively making it impossible for a person that has done only a DI course to join.

 

[Dustydazzler]

What’s a domestic installers course ? Is it one of those 5 day fast track oven baked things

imo 5 days isn’t long enough to become a qualified electrician. It should be 6 days

 

[telectrix]

What’s a domestic installers course ? Is it one of those 5 day fast track oven baked things

imo 5 days isn’t long enough to become a qualified electrician. It should be 6 days

make it 7. can't have traineees lying in bed late on a Sunday. how can they face the real world then?

 

[LukeD]

Who are the "powers that be" and any references for this information?

Only thing I've heard in relation to DI is that the NICEIC (not sure about the other CPS') are changing their entry requirements for the domestic installers scheme so from Sept this year an NVQ level 3 or equivalent is required, effectively making it impossible for a person that has done only a DI course to join.

I heard from someone who had a NICEIC inspector around .The inspector said they are planning on not accepting DI qualification only and REMOVING those who only have the DI qualification from their scheme ?????

 

[polaroid]

I heard from someone who had a NICEIC inspector around .The inspector said they are planning on not accepting DI qualification only and REMOVING those who only have the DI qualification from their scheme ?????

They won't accept the DI course as it's not an NVQ or equivalent. Those on the scheme already will not be removed, the changes only affect people joining the scheme after 1st sept 21.

 

[LukeD]

They won't accept the DI course as it's not an NVQ or equivalent. Those on the scheme already will not be removed, the changes only affect people joining the scheme after 1st sept 21.

That makes sense. The "Binning" idea sounds really bad news for guys who have joined etc

 

[polaroid]

The changes I mention are specifically aimed at the "Qualified Supervisor" role - as a sole trader you fulfill that role.

 

[mattg4321]

Yep they won’t accept anyone as a QS without either NVQ level 3 or 2 years prior experience as a QS

 

[UNG]

They won't accept the DI course as it's not an NVQ or equivalent. Those on the scheme already will not be removed, the changes only affect people joining the scheme after 1st sept 21.

It is a bit of a half hearted attempt to fix a problem that they created IMO, those already in the scheme should be given a period of time to update or even demonstrate they are bringing their qualifications up to the required minimum standard for membership, I don't think a keep on paying your fees and you will be ok to carry on is good enough you could end up with a part of the scheme membership that is below the required new entry level for potentially 30 - 40 years

 

[telectrix]

the scams created this mess in order to line theirown pockets. time they dug deep into their ill-gotton gains and subsidised training to bring short course domestic installers up to scratch.

 

[MJPD29]

Domestic installer should never have been a thing. It was a money making scheme for scams that flooded the domestic market with primarily untrained and incompetent domestic installers. I wont call them sparks because they aren't for obvious reasons.

 

[Dustydazzler]

The DI 'short course electrician' was nothing short of a band wagon scam to fill the coffers of the scams.
It turned Dave the plumber into Dave the Electrician literally overnight with little to no actual on-site experience.
If we really want a better standard for domesticated electrician then the scams should put on some proper courses for Dave

 

[Pete999]

the scams created this mess in order to line theirown pockets. time they dug deep into their ill-gotton gains and subsidised training to bring short course domestic installers up to scratch.

Panic will ensue surely in the DI fraternity?

 

[UNG]

Panic will ensue surely in the DI fraternity?

Surely those in panic will be the training companies it will be harder to sell that dream now

 

[Spoon]

.....that flooded the domestic market with primarily untrained and incompetent domestic installers. I wont call them sparks because they aren't for obvious reasons.

A bit of a blanket statement there...
There are some good people on here who have taken the short course and then gone on to expand their knowledge and experience. I take my hat off to them and would class them as sparks.

 

[Dustydazzler]

From me the whole D.I thing was backwards and degraded the trade as a whole

do you have domestic plumbers or domestic carpenters , no , you have plumbers and carpenters

the entire D.I thing was ill though out and just a cash grab scam

why can’t we just go back to the days of an electrician was an electrician

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

As mentioned those already registered are okay. If you now try to join the DI scheme then you will require the qualifications or have been a qs for 2+ years.
I did post something about this recently. I think the training centres will be rethinking things.

 

[UNG]

why can’t we just go back to the days of an electrician was an electrician

The training takes to long and doesn't fit in with "it's only two wires how complicated can it be" for a lot of people

 

[Rockingit]

why can’t we just go back to the days of an electrician was an electrician

Because as a nation we're losing traditional skills and the education system is designed solely to teach kids how to look up the answer

Because kids aren't taught that electricians are gods, instead they're sold the dream of university debt

Because Mrs Jones thinks it's easy because it's on YouTube so wants it cheap

Because why be a trade college with an intake of 50-60 apprentice's a year with no money when you can advertise lies on the internet and have an intake of 50-60 a month with a credit card

Because.....
Because.....

 

[LukeD]

Because as a nation we're losing traditional skills and the education system is designed solely to teach kids how to look up the answer

Because kids aren't taught that electricians are gods, instead they're sold the dream of university debt

Because Mrs Jones thinks it's easy because it's on YouTube so wants it cheap

Because why be a trade college with an intake of 50-60 apprentice's a year with no money when you can advertise lies on the internet and have an intake of 50-60 a month with a credit card

Because.....
Because.....

THis 100% . The whole route to been qualified is a mess . I think it should only have one road and a government controlled body.Not private businesses been "in charge "

 

[Pete999]

THis 100% . The whole route to been qualified is a mess . I think it should only have one road and a government controlled body.Not private businesses been "in charge "

Wholeheartedly agree well said Luke.

 

[Pete999]

i worked with a domestic installer, he replaced an rcd, those old boards with the rigid neutrals, think they are wylex?, anyway he obviously struggled to get it in so just pushed the neutral link behind the rcd and left it. did he seriously think nobody would find out?

got called to a job of no lights working after an mcb change aswell, he didnt even tighten it, just plopped the cable in the top terminal, job jobbed!

always disappearing to the wholesaler for silicone, think he paid about 3 grand for his "ticket"

Paid being the operative word, " you pays yer money"

 

[LukeD]

Same same with Gas safe... The short course guys work could be seriously bad.

 

[nicebutdim]

A bit of a blanket statement there...
There are some good people on here who have taken the short course and then gone on to expand their knowledge and experience. I take my hat off to them and would class them as sparks.

I could be wrong, but isn't this how @SparkyChick started out in the industry?

I don't think anyone could argue against the value of apprenticeships, nor the fact that short courses alone fall far short of being an ideal means of training, but anyone reading this thread could be forgiven for thinking that apprenticeships are a guarantee of quality workmanship, yet reality often proves otherwise.

 

[ipf]

The DI 'short course electrician' was nothing short of a band wagon scam to fill the coffers of the scams.
It turned Dave the plumber into Dave the Electrician literally overnight with little to no actual on-site experience.
If we really want a better standard for domesticated electrician then the scams should put on some proper courses for Dave

Don't start getting words mixed up...it's 'wet pants' who aren't house trained?

 

[polaroid]

What difference would it make if all the DI courses just disappeared tomorrow?

None whatsoever...

As mentioned, you'll still have DIY, handymen, kitchen fitters doing substandard work and some of that group will do better work than the almighty time served spark.

It's purely down to the individual.

 

[westward10]

I could be wrong, but isn't this how @SparkyChick started out in the industry?

I don't think anyone could argue against the value of apprenticeships, nor the fact that short courses alone fall far short of being an ideal means of training, but anyone reading this thread could be forgiven for thinking that apprenticeships are a guarantee of quality workmanship, yet reality often proves otherwise.

Agreed as also pointed out by @Spoon so let's not turn this into a DI basher exercise. As @nicebutdim points out being time served is no guarantee of competence there are plenty if bad apples from that side of the fence also, I should know I am one.

 

[ipf]

I could be wrong, but isn't this how @SparkyChick started out in the industry?

I don't think anyone could argue against the value of apprenticeships, nor the fact that short courses alone fall far short of being an ideal means of training, but anyone reading this thread could be forgiven for thinking that apprenticeships are a guarantee of quality workmanship, yet reality often proves otherwise.

There are a good few on here, some who've gone on to higher level, strima's a good example. Many to be admired....others taken to the cleaners by con men charging a fortune.
It's been an option for quite a few who've left the forces. I know an 'electrician' who left the army who did one. He couldn't quite grasp things after trying to go self employed and lost cash. As a result, his family are generally crapping themselves every time he goes away, as a mercenary.

 

[LukeD]

There are a good few on here, some who've gone on to higher level, strima's a good example. Many to be admired....others taken to the cleaners by con men charging a fortune.
It's been an option for quite a few who've left the forces. I know an 'electrician' who left the army who did one. He couldn't quite grasp things after trying to go self employed and lost cash. As a result, his family are generally crapping themselves every time he goes away, as a mercenary.

NO there is a Trade that aint earning what they use to !

 

[nicebutdim]

NO there is a Trade that aint earning what they use to !

I'm not sure that I follow your thinking on this.

DI's are exceptionally limited in the work they can undertake, unless they use that course as a stepping stone to a significant amount of further training. Even accounting for the work they can carry out, I don't imagine that many of them paid thousands of pounds just to go out and work for peanuts.

There's no doubting the fact that many electricians earn much less than they ideally should, but I don't think DI's are to blame for that. Do you believe that electricians were rolling in cash before the Domestic Installer title was created?

 

[dodger421]

Whatever happens it would be great if all of the nations could come up with a better way of getting into the industry for those of us who're too old and have too many bills to pay to afford apprenticeship wages.

As @ipf mentioned the DI scheme was, and currently still is, an attractive resettlement course for many folks leaving the armed forces, it was run as a 3 or 5 week course titled "NAPIT full scope domestic electrician" or something very like that. A number of my ex-colleagues have done it with varying degrees of business success and it was a course I considered but rejected as I was moving back to Scotland where the qualifications mean effectively diddly squat to SELECT/SJIB when it comes to registering as an electrician.

So yeah, a better way of recognising prior learning for those of us with a lot of electrical/electronics experience and a more coherent approach from all of the industry bodies would be nice, but that's a wishlist I never expect to see happen.

 

[dodger421]

I suspect that was aimed at the armed forces. Effectively taking a pay cut in real terms for 8 years whilst being asked to do more with less resources, just like all the other public sector workers.

This is neither the time nor the place for that debate though.

 

[nicebutdim]

I suspect that was aimed at the armed forces. Effectively taking a pay cut in real terms for 8 years whilst being asked to do more with less resources, just like all the other public sector workers.

This is neither the time nor the place for that debate though.

It seems I may have been misled by a typo...

 

[LukeD]

should have read "Now" there is a trade ... Private security/merc work is paying peanuts these days . Unless you are linked into major companies /teams . Base security teams in iraq etc could earn a good wage.Now i heard it Indians etc on $50 a day !

 

[nicebutdim]

should have read "Now" there is a trade ... Private security/merc work is paying peanuts these days . Unless you are linked into major companies /teams . Base security teams in iraq etc could earn a good wage.Now i heard it Indians etc on $50 a day !

Amazing how one letter can make such a difference ?

 

[telectrix]

just waiting for my bank to make a typo. a missed zero on my overdraft would be useful.

 

[dodger421]

just waiting for my bank to make a typo. a missed zero on my overdraft would be useful.

Or not if it’s in their favour

 

[rapparee]

should have read "Now" there is a trade ... Private security/merc work is paying peanuts these days . Unless you are linked into major companies /teams . Base security teams in iraq etc could earn a good wage.Now i heard it Indians etc on $50 a day !

You can do alright with the Wagner Group ?

 

[Rockingit]

I got an offer years back to be an electrical civvy on the Iraq and Afghan camps, some serious wedge at the time and I was very tempted until I'd deliberated for so long I got beaten to the news I was going to be a daddy, at which point all bets were off. Give it another ten years and I could consider the Antarctic research station for six months, though.