>50kWp systems. Dead forever?

[SolarCity]

We went to speak to a customer earlier this week who wanted to fill a field with panels. He has a budget of £2.5 million pound (!) and wanted us to put some figures together for him. This was the first time that I had put figures together on a >50kWp system since the FITs review and they're not good. The payback period is huge and the installation just isn't economical.

When I design a large scale system and realise just how small a 50kWp system really is, I can't help thinking that Chris Huhne has dropped a massive skin nut.

 

[Graeme Harrold]

I believe the reasoning behind this is to stop said multi millionaire/s popping up sites purely for financial gain. The focus of the FIT is to encourage take-up at the lower end of the market and spread the wealth.

 

[SolarCity]

Fair enough. And I'd agree on >300-400kWp sites, but 50kWp is tiny. Doesn't the market need this kind of system to help it along?

 

[Graeme Harrold]

That would be a gid about 22m along each length see what you mean, not a lot.

 

[Graeme Harrold]

FIT News on Segen Site


(If aany body is reedin this fae Aberdeen, FIT is nae what!, but Feed in Tariff!!!!!

 

[SolarCity]

Yeah, but it's difficult to understand how anything above 50kWp could be considered large scale. About 220A or so.

 

[Worcester]

We're actually working with 2 clients on large scale commercial roofs, each one could take just around 200kWp. Looks like neither will go ahead now. An even bigger shame, because they actually use that amount of power on each of the sites anyway, so would have actually been reducing their carbon footprint as well as generating ...
In that instance Chris Huhne definitely shot himself in the foot.

 

[SolarCity]

If they're actually using the electricity then it does start becoming economical. The site I'm looking at at the moment is export only.

 

[malcolmsanford]

We're actually working with 2 clients on large scale commercial roofs, each one could take just around 200kWp. Looks like neither will go ahead now. An even bigger shame, because they actually use that amount of power on each of the sites anyway, so would have actually been reducing their carbon footprint as well as generating ...
In that instance Chris Huhne definitely shot himself in the foot.

So what is stopping them from using the system, initial outlay of the system? or the fact that they will not be making a profit from other electrical users that can not afford PV systems, and are being taxed to support the industry.

 

[Worcester]

So what is stopping them from using the system, initial outlay of the system? or the fact that they will not be making a profit from other electrical users that can not afford PV systems, and are being taxed to support the industry.

It was being considered as a business investment and being judged on its ROI merits, if the FIT rates are changed it affects ROI and so therefore an alternative investment (say buy another commercial property and let it out) may have a better ROI. Business is Business.

 

[JD6400]

Above 50 kw is not yet dead , we are half way through a 82kw and are starting the remaining 60kw of a 90 kw site on Wednesday .
I have got to admit we would not take on any more that size at the moment .
It will be interesting to see what is actually is on the way , does anyone know for sure ?
I have heard there may be a u turn on the way , but who knows !

 

[seprim]

Above 50 kw is not yet dead , we are half way through a 82kw and are starting the remaining 60kw of a 90 kw site on Wednesday .
I have got to admit we would not take on any more that size at the moment .
It will be interesting to see what is actually is on the way , does anyone know for sure ?
I have heard there may be a u turn on the way , but who knows !

Good luck with that project dp
My guess is, they will "tweak" it a little to discourage what they don't want and encourage what they do want. You never know the <4kW rate might be increased as a result

 

[JD6400]

Thanks
As for the 4kw band i personally think that will be on the up , 10kw may stay the same but will probably drop a little bit and over that it is going to come down radically . But thats just my view ?
I suppose we should start a new thread on this one to see what others think will happen ?

 

[Worcester]

This is the latest on FITS: fortunately it has no effect on new Solar PV installations, it has an impact on micro-hydro and pre-FITS installations

FITs Amendment Order 2011

The Feed-in Tariffs (Specified Maximum Capacity and Functions) (Amendment) Order 2011 was laid in Parliament on 4th May 2011 and will come into force on 30th May 2011.
The 2011 Amendment Order is not part of the FITs review but has been developed in the light of early experience of implementing FITs.

It DOES NOT cover the review that is underway, it is meant to be 'housekeeping' and clarification

It does tidy up where in one place it says 'declared net capacity' and elsewhere uses the term 'total installed capacity', however as above it should have no effect on new installations.

Remember that totall installed capacity is NOT kWp, it:
"means the maximum capacity at which an Eligible Installation could be operated for a sustained period without causing damage to it (assuming the Eligible Lowcarbon Energy Source was available to it without interruption), a declaration of which is submitted as part of the processes of ROO-FIT Accreditation and MCScertified Registration;"

The consultation is now CLOSED (closed on Friday 6th May).
The legitimacy of the review is being challenged, though we'll see if they bother to go to court (the abolition of the RSS's was successfully challenged though it is slightly different in this case, as the Governemnt will go for a statutory order)

 

[TedM]

My take on the revised FiTs legislation:

Coming into force 30th May 2011

The Feed-in Tariffs (Specified Maximum Capacity and Functions) (Amendment) Order 2011
The Feed-in Tariffs (Specified Maximum Capacity and Functions) (Amendment) Order 2011

There are three main changes in this:

1. changing the maximum 5MW limit for FiTs to apply to total installed capacity (TIC) instead of declared net capacity (DNC) as in the original legislation.

2. amending the hydro eligibility rules to allow <50kW non-MCS systems until 1st October 2011.

3. rewriting and clarifying the rules on state aid and de minimis aid. Additionally this now imposes cut-off dates for systems where the aid must be accepted before 1st July 2011 and the system must be first commissioned before 1st October 2011.
It appears that after these dates that even de minimis aid will now no longer be available to system owners who want to avail themselves of FiTs.

The existing legislation: The Feed-in Tariffs (Specified Maximum Capacity and Functions) Order 2010
The Feed-in Tariffs (Specified Maximum Capacity and Functions) Order 2010