EICR no RCD given a C2

[pc1966]

The growing problem for EICR is exactly like PAT testing: once it becomes big enough business due to legislation you get companies that "specialise" in doing it and it becomes a race to the bottom in terms of absolute minimum work for the fee the market will support.

No conscience. No professional integrity. Simply money from trained-monkey testers that are only there to do the one repetitive task.

When you look at the time spent the question should be "What did they check?" and in 45 minutes it is hard to see how they could even do the visual inspection of 10 circuit's worth of end points, let alone identify them, isolate, and do any useful testing.

 

[Robert51]

Hi everyone, I got the EICR back for one of the flats that failed it. I've attached a pdf.

If anyone here could let me know what they think of the C2 ratings in here, it would be much appreciated. As I mentioned before, I am just looking to see if these ratings are correct and proper or whether the guy is looking for more work.

Much appreciated everyone.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Did a child write that report up?

 

[mattg4321]

I assume it was written by someone who doesn’t speak English as a first language as there are numerous spelling mistakes and terrible grammar.

That in itself doesn’t make it a bad report.

On the face of it he’s managed to test an awful lot in 45 mins. Maybe he was there longer or had access to a previous report and has just copied that?

Some of the C2’s and C3’s are extremely harsh in my opinion.
[automerge]1593958473[/automerge]
I personally would’ve definitely coded no RCD on lighting as C3. This requirement only came in with the 18th in 2018. Strangely enough he has coded C3 for cables buried in wall less than 50mm, yet this regulation has been around since the start of 17th edition. Makes no sense to me. This one is almost certainly far too harsh unless there are lights/fans within the bathroom zones or something.

No RCD on socket outlets in 8th floor flat would be C3 for me probably. No chance of using equipment out of doors. However this would depend on whether sockets were positioned in places I would consider greater risk/there being electric under floor heating on the circuit etc.

IP rating of light fittings out of bathroom zones is not usually a reason to code at all in my opinion.

I have no idea what he’s waffling on about when talking about NIC.

 

[Robert51]

I assume it was written by someone who doesn’t speak English as a first language as there are numerous spelling mistakes and terrible grammar.

That in itself doesn’t make it a bad report.

On the face of it he’s managed to test an awful lot in 45 mins. Maybe he was there longer or had access to a previous report and has just copied that?

Some of the C2’s and C3’s are extremely harsh in my opinion.
[automerge]1593958473[/automerge]
I personally would’ve definitely coded no RCD on lighting as C3. This requirement only came in with the 18th in 2018. Strangely enough he has coded C3 for cables buried in wall less than 50mm, yet this regulation has been around since the start of 17th edition. Makes no sense to me. This one is almost certainly far too harsh unless there are lights/fans within the bathroom zones or something.

No RCD on socket outlets in 8th floor flat would be C3 for me probably. No chance of using equipment out of doors. However this would depend on whether sockets were positioned in places I would consider greater risk/there being electric under floor heating on the circuit etc.

IP rating of light fittings out of bathroom zones is not usually a reason to code at all in my opinion.

I have no idea what he’s waffling on about when talking about NIC.

Thank you Matt. The flat doesn't have any fancy under floor things like that. He did not have any access to previous reports at all.

On the topic of RCDs, how much would you guys charge here for fitting them onto a CU assuming things are in order.

 

[westward10]

He mentions a pike off consumer unit which I assume means off peak. This is not included in this Report and it should be it is part of the installation.
The problem here is there are no defined rules in BS7671 on how to Code issues just a mention in an Appendix that the lack of additional rcd protection should be a minimum Code 3. Coding therefore is down to personal opinion, weighing up the risks along with knowledge and experience should give sensible outcomes. Most people on here would not deem the Code 2 items in your Report as justifiable, unfortunately your electrician does.

 

[Strima]

Installation reference method is A which is cables run in conduit. A good assumption is that this is metallic conduit.

That would make the lack of RCD protection a C3.

Could you post a picture of the consumer unit (fusebox)?

Very harsh codings on that report.

 

[DefyG]

Were the multiple EICR's for similar properties? Thinking perhaps he did one 'properly' and used that as a template for others hence the 45min visit.
It took me longer than 45mins to get permission to switch off to get a Ze value on a recent EICR on a block of 24.
£90 is a joke for London especially 10 circuits, but maybe £120/hr is ok for London.
Mine would have been £245.00.(Berkshire not London) and 4-5 hrs!

 

[westward10]

He actually tested seven circuits, three of those single point circuits, the assumed off peak appears to have been omitted. Nevertheless if 45 minutes is an accurate timescale it isn't really feasible. This is a typical narrow minded Report with the usual comments rcd protection, plastic consumer unit and little else.

 

[SJD]

So all the circuits appear to have an insulation resistance test at 500V, but only (L+N) to E, since there would not have been time to go round and disconnect everything so should have been at 250V? That being the case, hopefully nothing plugged in or connected was blown up! Assuming the test was actually done!

I don't believe in 45 mins it would have been possible to do the range of tests on the sheet there are results for - such as all the (R1+R2) tests especially sockets.

 

[davesparks]

So all the circuits appear to have an insulation resistance test at 500V, but only (L+N) to E, since there would not have been time to go round and disconnect everything so should have been at 250V? That being the case, hopefully nothing plugged in or connected was blown up! Assuming the test was actually done!

The L+N to E test is done at 500V and is perfectly acceptable for an EICR.

Why do you think anything would be 'blown up'?
[automerge]1593966091[/automerge]

Hi everyone, I got the EICR back for one of the flats that failed it. I've attached a pdf.

If anyone here could let me know what they think of the C2 ratings in here, it would be much appreciated. As I mentioned before, I am just looking to see if these ratings are correct and proper or whether the guy is looking for more work.

Much appreciated everyone.

I'd send that back and request a new report written in English instead of that nonsense.

 

[ipf]

I don't believe in 45 mins it would have been possible to do the range of tests on the sheet there are results for - such as all the (R1+R2) tests especially sockets.

A long lead continuity test there, too. That plus up and down 8 stories with tackle would use the 3/4 hour.
Rubbish stuff, all round for a one off.
If they are multi, four of those a day churns out best part of 2k a week....…….money for old rope and that's why it's not just taking the p*** out of the customer but the trade in general.….again.

 

[Vortigern]

He did not have any access to previous reports at all.

He should have read previous reports, are there any? That is the first thing I would be asking.

 

[DefyG]

I think the price the landlord has paid is relevant to the quality of the report he has received.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

He's given a C2 at 4.16 - RCDs provided for fault protection, yet all the measured loop impedances are well below their max. permitted.

 

[Robert51]

Thank you everyone for the reply - it's very interest and helpful to get perspective from you.

I wanted to ask how much people here thinks it should cost to fit one RCD assuming everything else was in order?

I also wondered if any textbooks from NICEIC would be helpful for me to understand things a bit better. I always like to have at least a basic knowledge of the rules. NICEIC have some book on their website. Would the guidance note on inspection and testing provide some helpful info on the coding of things:

IET Guidance Note 3: Inspection and Testing | 18th Edition

Ideal for those working in specification, testing and inspection and for consulting engineers, as well as electrical installers | BUY NOW!

www.shop.niceic.com

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Well he can’t fit one RCD to the whole installation, the installation has to be divided up amongst multiple RCD devices

 

[Strima]

As there's one RCBO fitted already fitting another shouldn't be a problem. Do you have a picture of the board?

 

[pc1966]

Would the guidance note on inspection and testing provide some helpful info on the coding of things:

Not that one, it is the IET guide to performing the tests, not the coding for acceptability in an EICR.

The best freely available guide is the Best Practice #4 booklet available free here:

Best Practice Guides | Electrical Safety First

Electrical Safety First produces, in association with other industry bodies, a range of Best Practice Guides which provide definitive information and guidance on a range of technical subjects.

www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk

It has various examples of problems and coding relating to them.

 

[suffolkspark]

@Robert51 I'd contact niceic with your concerns, whilst the report was ridiculously cheap this company could be miscoding many many reports and they need pulling up.