UK EICR Unsatisfactory

[Danmatt]

Hi, needed an EICR for my house. An electrician has issued me with an unsatisfactory certificate. He's invoiced me for doing the survey but obvs work needs doing. If I don't get him to do the remedial work where do I stand with having a satisfactory certificate?

Also, the electrician has said "There is no RCD protection for circuits 1 & 2, the consumer unit is made from plastic". Yes, I have a plastic consumer unit which he has put at a C3, commenting "Consumer unit is not metal or installed in a non-combustible cabinet or enclosure, showing NO signs of thermal damage, located under a wooden or combustible public stairwell forming part of an escape route from a dwelling area." My CU is not under my stairs nor is it part of an escape route. It's in a room next to the front door with a door which closes. The front door is not the only access to the outside of my house - I have a back door too through my kitchen.

My quote for works says "Replace & install consumer unit for dual RCD 18th edition". Do I actually need to replace the CU for a metal one or can the RCD protection be put in place for circuits 1&2.

Not sure if any of this makes sense.

 

[Vortigern]

No you do not need to replace the CU. It is a C3. Sometimes automated editing of certs leads to such items being put in an EICR. You can get caught out by that if you don't read the cert before you send it out. There are pre made insertions on the software that produces the cert that can make these "mistakes" it is all about checking/reading through the cert before you fire it out. Check with the spark who did it and you might find he will amend the cert when he looks at it. Bottom line, there is no need to change the CU unless there are compelling reasons to such as C1/C2 related to the CU. Apart form that it is opportunism suggesting you must change it, and that is putting it charitably.

 

[Lister1987]

You don't have to have the same guys back. Any work done to remedy issues highlighted by the EICR should have an accompanying minor works. The failed EICR and the combined Mi or Works for remedials cancel out the unsatisfactory EICR but you may have to pay to get a cert reissued as satisfactory as it is unlikely a spark would trust another sparks paperwork.

No you don't have to replace it and yes it could be possible to retrofit an RCD to cover those circuits provided adequate space and spares for your current board (generally appropriate RCDs and a length of busbar or RCBOs to replace the MCBs)

 

[Ned Gibbons]

It might be an idea to post up a picture of your consumer unit. We'll be able to tell you if it's possible to add an RCD.

 

[ipf]

Hi, needed an EICR for my house. An electrician has issued me with an unsatisfactory certificate. He's invoiced me for doing the survey but obvs work needs doing. If I don't get him to do the remedial work where do I stand with having a satisfactory certificate?

Also, the electrician has said "There is no RCD protection for circuits 1 & 2, the consumer unit is made from plastic". Yes, I have a plastic consumer unit which he has put at a C3, commenting "Consumer unit is not metal or installed in a non-combustible cabinet or enclosure, showing NO signs of thermal damage, located under a wooden or combustible public stairwell forming part of an escape route from a dwelling area." My CU is not under my stairs nor is it part of an escape route. It's in a room next to the front door with a door which closes. The front door is not the only access to the outside of my house - I have a back door too through my kitchen.

My quote for works says "Replace & install consumer unit for dual RCD 18th edition". Do I actually need to replace the CU for a metal one or can the RCD protection be put in place for circuits 1&2.

Not sure if any of this makes sense.

He's not saying it is, I think he's trying to say it's not. To make it clearer he should he probably should have stated '' showing NO sign of thermal damage, nor is it located''.
Are any C1's or C2's listed? If not, why not satisfactory?

 

[loz2754]

Let's see the EICR with all personal details blotted out.

 

[telectrix]

He's not saying it is, I think he's trying to say it's not. To make it clearer he should he probably should have stated '' showing NO sign of thermal damage, nor is it located''.
Are any C1's or C2's listed? If not, why not satisfactory?

that's how i read it. it's ambiguous how it's worded.

 

[buzzlightyear]

remedials cancel out the unsatisfactory EICR but you may have to pay to get a cert reissued as satisfactory as it is unlikely a spark would trust another sparks paperwork.

The first spark needs to see the work had been done, but the spark doing the the work would need to produce the new test certs which will cost the op again.

 

[Danmatt]

It might be an idea to post up a picture of your consumer unit. We'll be able to tell you if it's possible to add an RCD.

@loz2754 I've snipped what I think you could need to see. Anything else is either a tick, LIM or N/A. Cheers!

 

[loz2754]

Thanks for posting part of the EICR.
From what I can see, all of the C2 items can be addressed without necessarily changing the consumer unit.

I believe the electrician has correctly coded as C3 the plastic consumer unit, but is suggesting it be replaced, not because of it not being non combustible, but as it is probably the best means of achieving RCD protection where it is lacking.
I would agree with that recommendation.

The only C2 items I would disagree with are for circuits passing through a bathroom, and for circuits supplying a bathroom. These should both be C3 according to both Napit codebreakers, and Electrical Safety First Best Practice Guide 4.

As has been suggested, the RCDs could possibly be added to your existing consumer unit, but that's not possible to tell from where I'm sitting right now. ?

 

[telectrix]

a lot of those C1 and C2 items are simple fixes.
C3 for the CU being plastic
C3 for no RCD bathroom circuits etc.

 

[brianmoooore]

So far, no one has explained to the OP that C3s do not result in an 'unsatisfactory' result. C1s and C2s are the ones that matter.
That appears to be a fair, honest and thorough EICR. There are a number of issues preventing the issuing of a satisfactory report, but most of these could be dealt with by a day's work.
The only thing I disagree with (from here) is the need to replace the CU, but if I was there in person, I might change my mind on that.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

If the electrician has put down a C2 for 4.4 (IP rating of CU), this is nothing to do with it being plastic as that is 4.5 which he has dealt with. Without being there we cannot see why he has coded it C2 so we cant say that it shouldn't be a code C2. You could ask him, but if I had coded it a C2 and advised a consumer unit change then I would have done so for a reason. It is potentially dangerous (and it is not financially viable to fill all the gaps compared to changing the CU) and needs changing asap.

 

[Lister1987]

I see a few mixed codes, I mean how can exposed live parts be anything but a C1, but this guy seems to think C1 and C2

 

[Danmatt]

Thanks for posting part of the EICR.
From what I can see, all of the C2 items can be addressed without necessarily changing the consumer unit.

I believe the electrician has correctly coded as C3 the plastic consumer unit, but is suggesting it be replaced, not because of it not being non combustible, but as it is probably the best means of achieving RCD protection where it is lacking.
I would agree with that recommendation.

The only C2 items I would disagree with are for circuits passing through a bathroom, and for circuits supplying a bathroom. These should both be C3 according to both Napit codebreakers, and Electrical Safety First Best Practice Guide 4.

As has been suggested, the RCDs could possibly be added to your existing consumer unit, but that's not possible to tell from where I'm sitting right now. ?

@loz2754 what, you have no crystal ball??? Thanks for your reply!

 

[Danmatt]

So far, no one has explained to the OP that C3s do not result in an 'unsatisfactory' result. C1s and C2s are the ones that matter.
That appears to be a fair, honest and thorough EICR. There are a number of issues preventing the issuing of a satisfactory report, but most of these could be dealt with by a day's work.
The only thing I disagree with (from here) is the need to replace the CU, but if I was there in person, I might change my mind on that.

@brianmoooore it's ok. I understand about C3 being akin to an advisory on an MOT failure ?

 

[ipf]

that's how i read it. it's ambiguous how it's worded.

Great minds read alike? even if I can't get me words straight, looking at my post.

 

[Danmatt]

The first spark needs to see the work had been done, but the spark doing the the work would need to produce the new test certs which will cost the op again.

@buzzlightyear If reducing my quote from £900 means I have to pay again, then I'm happy to do so. Unless you think that's a fair assessment of the work required? ?

 

[brianmoooore]

Posting some pics. of your CU might help us decide.

 

[Micktw68]

Need pics of the CU to make a judgement on whether it needs changing or the C2 can be addressed.

 

[newfutile]

How can the fault current be 0.9 KA with a 0.09 ZE fault current to earth will be at least 2.55 KA and most likely more line-neutral.

 

[stevethesparks]

How can the fault current be 0.9 KA with a 0.09 ZE fault current to earth will be at least 2.55 KA and most likely more line-neutral.

Must be working on the new 10V C-min

 

[Danmatt]

For those asking for a pic of the CU, I don't live there at the moment. It's got to be done up and it's a 5-hour round trip ? I'll see if I have any somewhere

 

[Danmatt]

Photo of CU for those asking.

 

[loz2754]

Photo of CU for those asking.

Tenby is an obsolete brand of Legrand.
If you decide to change the MCBs to RCBOs, Legrand have said this will fit:

Consumer Unit 1 Mod Rcb Os Type B | CEF

 

[pc1966]

The only think not obvious is the C2 for the IP rating of the CU. Usually that means a hole big enough to get a finger in (e.g. missing blank, but your photo shows that is fine), or smaller one the top where people tend to leave crap that can fall in potentially causing spark/fire.

If it is gaps on the top then it might be that suitable glands could be fitted to seal the unit up. Having said that, if there is going to a an hour or two of work to remove, gland, install and re-test circuits then it might be worth paying the extra £300 or whatever for a new CU at the same time.

Again, more photos showing the top/bottom/side where any holes are would allow folk on here to comment in a more meaningful way.