Fusebox consumers units

[DPG]

Everyone who moves into a non-new-build house and doesn't have the CU replaced is using second-hand devices.....

They were most likely new when they were installed though. Not really getting your argument here.

 

[Soi disant]

What's the difference between putting a s/h MCB into a CU and hoping it's OK and moving into a house with MCBs already installed in a CU and hoping that they are OK?

 

[MJPD29]

Everyone who moves into a non-new-build house and doesn't have the CU replaced is using second-hand devices.....

Don't understand this statement at all. They were new when installed most likely. Suppose your using a 2nd hand boiler then, 2nd hand pipes, 2nd hand bricks as well. Doesn't make much sense.

 

[DPG]

What's the difference between putting a s/h MCB into a CU and hoping it's OK and moving into a house with MCBs already installed in a CU and hoping that they are OK?

Your argument doesn't make sense. We're talking about FITTING used devices.

As an analogy, would you pay someone to fit a 2nd hand engine which hadn't been tested to your car?

 

[Dustydazzler]

What’s wrong with re using mcbs , not like they have a best before date

 

[pc1966]

At least with 2nd hand RCBO you can test the RCD side with your MFT, so have a bit more confidence they are not fake.

The underlying issue is folk get a CU fitted which ought to be good for 10-20 years, but then find a couple of years down the line they can't buy spares any more. True, it is not quite as bad as cars that have routine changes of things, but it is quite bad for the folk finding themselves in such a position.

Ideally there would be proper interchangeability in "standard" MCBs, etc, but short of that there should be a legal requirement to offer spare MCB/RCBO for 10 years after a product line is end-of-life at "reasonable" cost.

 

[DPG]

What’s wrong with re using mcbs , not like they have a best before date

I think its just the fact that you dont know their history, how they've been stored, whether they have been repeatedly closed on to faults etc. And you can't test them to prove they are good.

 

[Soi disant]

I think its just the fact that you dont know their history, how they've been stored, whether they have been repeatedly closed on to faults etc. And you can't test them to prove they are good.

I agree, but apart from storage you can't tell those things, or (realistically) test MCBs which are already installed in CUs in a house you move into.

 

[Soi disant]

Don't understand this statement at all. They were new when installed most likely. Suppose your using a 2nd hand boiler then, 2nd hand pipes, 2nd hand bricks as well. Doesn't make much sense.

If you buy a S/H MCB it was new when first installed, but it isn't now.
If you move into a house with a CU there, the MCBs in it were new when they were installed, but they aren't now.

I'm sorry I've not been able to explain myself properly - it wasn't my intention to start a row.

I just think that people should think about what is the real difference, per se, between an x-year old MCB which was installed in a CU today and an x-year old one installed in a CU x years ago, and if the former device is regarded with great suspicion because it isn't new then why not the latter?

Nobody is talking about electricians installing used gear as a matter of routine, but in circumstances where a new device is simply unobtainable, and the only alternatives to a used one are either no new/repaired circuit or an entire CU replacement, then is a bit of logical thinking around the fact that hundreds of thousands of people insert used protective devices into their lives, and rely on them for their safety, every time they move house, really not possible?

And after I moved in here I was indeed using a 2nd hand boiler for a while.

 

[Soi disant]

Your argument doesn't make sense. We're talking about FITTING used devices.

As a last resort.

As an analogy, would you pay someone to fit a 2nd hand engine which hadn't been tested to your car?

Not a perfect analogy, but we can run with it a bit.

If engines were not repairable, and I had a car which needed an engine, and I couldn't get a new one, and it was a quick and easy job to install a used one I wouldn't rule it out on the grounds that it was used.

In no new car I've ever had have I gone and put a new engine in it, or replaced the tyres just because they weren't new...

These analogies aren't perfect, but the tyre one raises another point. People cavil at the idea of putting s/h tyres on their car, but I'll bet a lot of them buy s/h cars and carry on using the s/h tyres that came with it.

 

[Soi disant]

Don't know why people think this mix and match situation is a recent thing as it has been a requirement for years to follow manufacturers guidance and this wouldn't have included fitted non-compatible devices it really is nothing new.

Well obv they would say that. ?

But we only have to "take account" of m/fac guidance now... ?

The problem with mix'n'match is type approval, but if you use devices with a 16kA short-circuit rating so that you don't have to take advantage of the conditional one that manufacturers rate their type-tested assemblies to then you ought to be able to mix'n'match to your heart's content, subject to physical constraints like bus-bar alignment.

 

[Teddy Lop]

As a last resort.


Not a perfect analogy, but we can run with it a bit.

If engines were not repairable, and I had a car which needed an engine, and I couldn't get a new one, and it was a quick and easy job to install a used one I wouldn't rule it out on the grounds that it was used.

In no new car I've ever had have I gone and put a new engine in it, or replaced the tyres just because they weren't new...

These analogies aren't perfect, but the tyre one raises another point. People cavil at the idea of putting s/h tyres on their car, but I'll bet a lot of them buy s/h cars and carry on using the s/h tyres that came with it.

"People" can do as they wish.

As a professional and also as a scheme member you're responsible for what you install, with regard to sourcing genuine parts and observing manufacturer recalls etc, eBay etc guarantees none of this and has also been the source of fake MCBs (mere switches with no coil etc)

same with mix'n'natching components, yes it can be a little annoying when you know many things will work with vanishingly little real danger, and yes its (yet) another example where the idiots on high think over regulating the compliant guys taking care about what theyre doing will somehow address the bodges of those wilfully ignoring any rules, but a compliant solution is rarely more than a little effort and thought away.

 

[Soi disant]

"People" can do as they wish.

As a professional and also as a scheme member you're responsible for what you install, with regard to sourcing genuine parts and observing manufacturer recalls etc, eBay etc guarantees none of this and has also been the source of fake MCBs (mere switches with no coil etc)

Gut feel says that's more likely to be a problem with new devices than used ones. If you're making fake MCBs why go to the hassle of making fake used ones, given the very much smaller market?

same with mix'n'natching components, yes it can be a little annoying when you know many things will work with vanishingly little real danger, and yes its (yet) another example where the idiots on high think over regulating the compliant guys taking care about what theyre doing will somehow address the bodges of those wilfully ignoring any rules, but a compliant solution is rarely more than a little effort and thought away.

A compliant solution is sometimes a little effort, thought, and significant expense away.

I wish I'd never mentioned it - I was never suggesting that people should trawl eBay for second hand CUs, or install s/h components without the customer being aware, only pointing out that sometimes a used device is worth considering and that there really is, logically, not necessarily as much difference between using an MCB that used to belong to Fred and using an MCB that used to belong to Fred because you've just bought Fred's house as there might appear.

But I'm obviously failing to explain myself, so I'll stop trying.

 

[Soi disant]

".... so I'll stop trying, and thereby, hopefully, bring conflict and dispute to an end, as I don't want those."

I meant to say.

 

[DPG]

".... so I'll stop trying, and thereby, hopefully, bring conflict and dispute to an end, as I don't want those."

I meant to say.

Good debate though.

 

[pc1966]

Good debate though.

Some points like this will run and run as the situation of the sparky, client, and installation are all things to weight up. But good to get the views aired in a (hopefully) civilised manner.

 

[mydigitalhome]

I purchase my Fusebox CU's from Mastertrade Supplies | Electrical Wholesaler - https://mastertrade.co.uk/ great service and can't fault these boards for the price so far.

 

[Mike Johnson]

But have you seen this price: Fusebox 14 Way Metal Consumer Unit with 10 RCBOs 100A Main Switch RCBO Board | eBay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fusebox-14-Way-Metal-Consumer-Unit-with-10-RCBOs-100A-Main-Switch-RCBO-Board/254365182423?

 

[SJD]

But have you seen this price: Fusebox 14 Way Metal Consumer Unit with 10 RCBOs 100A Main Switch RCBO Board | eBay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fusebox-14-Way-Metal-Consumer-Unit-with-10-RCBOs-100A-Main-Switch-RCBO-Board/254365182423?

That board is missing the surge protection module, which adds £30+. (they do offer it in another more expensive listing). I assume the RCBOs are also the type AC ones, which are cheaper than type A, again they don't say.

I've looked at this company's prices before, and always found you can do better (e.g. Gil-Lec, or Expert Electrical), but you do need to compare like with like.

 

[Teddy Lop]

Gut feel says that's more likely to be a problem with new devices than used ones. If you're making fake MCBs why go to the hassle of making fake used ones, given the very much smaller market?


A compliant solution is sometimes a little effort, thought, and significant expense away.

I wish I'd never mentioned it - I was never suggesting that people should trawl eBay for second hand CUs, or install s/h components without the customer being aware, only pointing out that sometimes a used device is worth considering and that there really is, logically, not necessarily as much difference between using an MCB that used to belong to Fred and using an MCB that used to belong to Fred because you've just bought Fred's house as there might appear.

But I'm obviously failing to explain myself, so I'll stop trying.

You've completely missed my point. Your scheme requires that you have tracable QA for what you buy and install, unless you have an in-date British standards recognised calibration certificate for your guts then how they feel won't satisfy that.

And I don't know how you quantify old is better than new, many old devices will have never operated!

I'm not saying you have to like it but like the 70mph speed limit or the fact you can't deal with knockers and tool thieves on your own terms, thems the rules. I'm not saying I've never sourced a difficult component using "other" but its something you really want to be wary of and try to avoid, rather than settle for as its the easiest fix.