general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and money)

[esubmarine]

so I work with this other guy as a general builder and he's a plumber, I figure we'd make a pretty good team if I could do some electrics. Most of the work we get are like full house renovations so I'd like to know how to do rewires, kitchens, lights, sockets etc. and check it all off.

My knowledge so far is limited to what I've seen on site and doing basics. Any advice?

 

[Sintra]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Stick to building mate learning to be a spark is not a quick fix IMO. Hire someone who is qualified and competent.

 

[bigbaddave]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Train to be a sparky but avoid the "Become an electrician in 5 weeks" malarkie... There not worth it bud

 

[telectrix]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

as a qualified spark, i'd like to know how to pile a few bricks together. do some builders out of work and make a fortune. it's only a few bricks, same as it's only a few wires, innit?

 

[trev]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Wind up.

 

[bigbaddave]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Wind up.

You on about those IR testers.. Boy they were something. Lol

 

[telectrix]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

i'm sure i saw mine in there.

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i'm sure i saw mine in there.

 

[trev]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

If you're genuine Esubmarine then there's a couple of lads on here who are from your neck of the woods, Top Cat and MDJ are the two who immediately spring to mind but I think Kate is down your way too. They all know their stuff and I'm sure they'd be happy to quote you on whatever you need doing which will help you out in the most efficient way. If you're not genuine then why don't you just go away. Apolgies to anyone down that way who I've forgotten to mention

 

[markc123]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

you want basic electrical training / you want to know how to do re-wires / you want to cert everything ....

Go to college and learn properly?

 

[telectrix]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

and then get 5 years practical training before being let loose.

 

[trev]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Basic electrical training is changing a lamp, a plug top or a fuse. A rewire, although at the technically easier end of what we do, is not basic.

 

[esubmarine]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

so first off... why would i not be genuine? I don't get why I've come back to this post and there are a bunch of semi mocking responses?

Thanks for your recommendation trev but we have a sparky we use at the moment who is no problem. I am looking to expand my knowledge as a beginner (so I can do basic wiring) and have no idea where to start, the long term goal of this is to be able to check of full rewires.This is long term and might be years from now. Apologies if this was unclear at first.

But as of today. I am confused and have no idea were my first port of call should be....

 

[markc123]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Esubmarine...you say you're a builder, and your mates a plumber...you want to know how to do electrics, to make a 'good team'...

Have you considered what you're going to do about the GAS work? Seeing as though you want to become the all singing and all dancing 2some. Let me answer that for you, you'd happily employ a gas engineer but not an electrician.

Our trade is F'd.

 

[markc123]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

so first off... why would i not be genuine? I don't get why I've come back to this post and there are a bunch of semi mocking responses?

Thanks for your recommendation trev but we have a sparky we use at the moment who is no problem. I am looking to expand my knowledge as a beginner and have no idea where to start, the long term goal of this is to be able to check of full rewires. This is long term and might be years from now.

But as of today. I am confused and have no idea were my first port of call should be....

People maybe thought you wern't genuine when your definition of basic is totally different to the dictionarys.

Yes, it will take you years. Go to college get enrolled on the 2357 course for a few years, then with onsite practical experience gained by working alongside a qualified and competent electrician you can then take the next step and get enrolled on the 2394/2395 inspection and testing courses. Along with the 17th.

 

[Robson689]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

I would start by going to a local college and seeing what courses they offer. It might be a case of you doing evening classes for a couple of years.

 

[esubmarine]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

People maybe thought you wern't genuine when your definition of basic is totally different to the dictionarys.

Yes, it will take you years. Go to college get enrolled on the 2357 course for a few years, then with onsite practical experience gained by working alongside a qualified and competent electrician you can then take the next step and get enrolled on the 2394/2395 inspection and testing courses. Along with the 17th.

Yeah should have been a bit more thoughtful with my first post me-thinks....Thanks for the tips buddy, Ill definitely be checking those out.

 

[trev]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

so first off... why would i not be genuine? I don't get why I've come back to this post and there are a bunch of semi mocking responses?

Thanks for your recommendation trev but we have a sparky we use at the moment who is no problem. I am looking to expand my knowledge as a beginner (so I can do basic wiring) and have no idea where to start, the long term goal of this is to be able to check of full rewires.This is long term and might be years from now. Apologies if this was unclear at first.

But as of today. I am confused and have no idea were my first port of call should be....

Why would I not think you are genuine? Well let's see, 1 There's the way you come on and use the terminology you did. 2 There's the statement just made about having a spark already, why are you not asking him. 3 The obvious assumption that what we do is easy and can be done by anyone with a modicum of instruction. If you are genuine then I'm sorry if I've offended you but you have to see that what you said is offensive to me as someone who spent years studying to learn this trade as a young lad and who hears builders/plumbers/plasterers/joiners et al coming out with stuff like "It's just a few wires what can possibly go wrong" As Mark said, you'd be happy to employ someone to install a heating system but you reckon you could cope with a rewire between you and your mate (after receiving instructions over the internet thus doing your current spark out of work? Don't make me laugh mate

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Sorry, Mark beat me to it and probably put it more delicately.

 

[micknew]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

I would start by going to a local college and seeing what courses they offer. It might be a case of you doing evening classes for a couple of years.

A couple of years is not enough

 

[Guest55]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Wind up.

thank god someone else twigged on by post #5.
;-)

 

[Dcf]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Where I stay builders build.sparks spark.handymen dabble in everything ,usually badly.to do it properly will take time make no mistake.yet another example of the concept of teaching a bit of a trade and thinking that's all there is to it. I don't think your current spark will be too keen to pass his pearls of wisdom on to you if he gets wind you want to do it yourself.

 

[Robson689]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

A couple of years is not enough

My main point was to go to a local college and see what they offer.

 

[stuartcourt]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Well said and also I as I am sure most of us feel this is not just a part time job we do. Our trade changes all the time and you need to be part of it 24/7 to move with it.

 

[telectrix]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

putting it another way. if the building trade was as bad as ours - thousands of semi-skilled builders undercutting your prices to the point where you could not get enough work at a decent price to pay your bills, would you encourage someone to enter your trade and take even more work off you?

 

[trev]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Well said and also I as I am sure most of us feel this is not just a part time job we do. Our trade changes all the time and you need to be part of it 24/7 to move with it.

No Stuart that's obviously bull and our trade is a piece of ****. Tell you what OP, just go to B & Q They have friendly helpful experts there that will tell you its 1.5mm cable for lights 2.5mm for sockets and 6mm for showers and cookers. They'll even tell you how to install a consumer unit. Don't worry about calculations for cable derating and selection, safe isolation, prescribed zones, protective device selection or anything else of that worthless crap, just buy what the expert tells you and chuck it in any old how. Never mind about pre work surveys, or initial verification inspection, testing and certification because no one else is interested. You don't even have to worry that what you've done is safe because it's not like electricity is dangerous is it? Oh hang on a minute, it is. they used to use it in America to execute murderers

 

[esubmarine]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

hey dude dont mean to have touched a nerve about your trade.... i get that its complicated and was only asking for advice, if i came across the wrong way or explained my goals in a nieve manner.... it because yes your right! i dont have a clue about your trade. you've kinda just jumped off the handle and got all angry and wound up with me, so I guess I can only apologies for belittling your trade in whatever way i have done.

im not looking to do you, or the guy that works with me out of work.....the guy is a legend. but i hate on a personal level not being able to do something or understand it.

I just want to learn more and expand but didnt know where to start. thankfully i think ive got enough out of this post to get me thinking.

 

[Floody]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

College college college!! There is NO other way to learn. (Unless u want to take an apprentice wage which I'm sure as a builder, you don't)

stick to building, get through college like the rest of us who want to do rewires and make money, then work with a spark. Electrics aren't to be F'ed with if your not competent, but I'm sure as a builder you already know that.

house rewiring isn't something you pick up quick either, you may know how and where to put cables, but then there's all the calculations and cable choices behind those for about 50 different reasons....and that's what separates a 'domestic installer' from a good spark.


And I'm going to make my own quote up here that I think stands for the Electricians trade...(feedback too please)

​knowing 'why' is better than knowing 'how'

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

You shouldnt be "checking off rewires"?? as a builder, In fact you shouldnt be doing anything electrical as a builder, If you want to be a spark then fine, go through the correct training, but you wont be checking off anything for at least 4-5 years, and rightly so

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[esubmarine]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

@floody i think your quotes great and thanks for the clarfications

 

[trev]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Look mate, I'm sorry for coming across all bolshie and arrogant as if I'm some kind of electrical god who's black arts and secrets passed down to him by the mystical forebears during his apprenticeship are not for the uninitiated because that's not usually me. It just annoys the life out of me when we get the plumber/joiner/plasterer etc on here with the attitude that you can get a reasonably intelligent monkey to do this stuff. That's perhaps not you and once again, sorry for picking up your questioning the wrong way

 

[Darkwood]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

As a builder.... and the state of the domestic electrical market and the salaries we have had to take due to thousands of get qualified quick courses you are probably on more than most domestic sparkies now, stick to it and find the niche in your own market.

 

[markc123]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Aye, there's alot of competition in the electrical trade at the moment - most of it unwated due to the way things are currently done. So, if you can stick to building and find your own niche as Darkwood said it would probably make more sense financially.

 

[esubmarine]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Look mate, I'm sorry for coming across all bolshie and arrogant as if I'm some kind of electrical god who's black arts and secrets passed down to him by the mystical forebears during his apprenticeship are not for the uninitiated because that's not usually me. It just annoys the life out of me when we get the plumber/joiner/plasterer etc on here with the attitude that you can get a reasonably intelligent monkey to do this stuff. That's perhaps not you and once again, sorry for picking up your questioning the wrong way

I completely understand why that would get you riled up, sorry we got off on the wrong foot! I should have just spent a little more time researching before blurting out a question. I did oddly enough gain a quite realistic insight to the state of the industry and your post did make me wiki cable derating so i did learn something from it.... so let not call it a negative experience

Am going to have a think about what I want to do, might be worth checking the college but it seems like the level i want to achieve is a bit beyond the training and time I could dedicate at the moment.

 

[Sparkie30]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo


some people cant wait to 'have a go' at anyone who asks a basic question.

@esubmarine
if i was you i would pay attention how your sparkie does his work then find a college
and when tutor explain things you will understand them.

good luck

 

[markc123]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

It's the way he worded his OP sparkie30. That's the reason it was a semi-hostile response.

I've tried to point him in the right direction the best i can, but like you've said...he needs to be enquiring at a local college and getting enrolled onto the 2357 whilst working alongside his friend.

 

[trev]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Sparkie30 I wasn't "having a go at someone who asks a basic question" maybe it was the result of a pretty bad day and Esubmarine got the back wash from it, probably more my fault than his, but you have to admit when you read the first post in this thread it comes across as a wind up and it's not the first one of the night. I've apologised for some of the knee jerk reaction that he got from me, maybe that should be the end of it. I've let it go and it seems to me like he has (kind of) forgiven me.

 

[Sparkie30]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

It's the way he worded his OP sparkie30. That's the reason it was a semi-hostile response.

Yeah i agree with you Markc123 the way he worded his OP did not help him but he didn't offend anyone.

Im led to believe alot of people in here think they are Gods gift just because they are electricians.

 

[Toonlad]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

If you look at your beer through the base of the Geordie Schooner glass, you’ll not only see a star shape, you’ll also look like an idiot. #No********

 

[Geordie Spark]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

you want basic electrical training / you want to know how to do re-wires / you want to cert everything ....

Go to college and learn properly?

Aye, but he says he doesn't want to waste any time or money.

 

[esubmarine]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

so I checked out the courses available at my local college today and they do 2 part time courses, the one that seemed most suited to me was the Certificate of Domestic Electrical Installer Part P. The result of the qualification was 'you will be nominated as a qualified supervisor with a Competent Persons scheme'. Don't quite get what this means I'd be able to do? It hints that this is a course for builders/kitchen fitter who want in the foundation knowledge to commence working as domestic electrician, so it seems like it would suit my needs......anyone had any experience with a similar course?

Also it costs 1327 + vat for 10 weeks part time, is this a fair price?

 

[trev]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

These courses were designed for the kitchen fitter or gas installer so that they could do what they needed to do. Instead they have been switched around by the training centres so that people who are taking them are thinking that they're qualified electricians. We refer to them here as 5 week wonders.

 

[Floody]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

As Trev said, just search 'Electrical Trainee' in the forum and you'll kinda get the jist of it.

its a perfectly acceptable course for a kitchen fitter to just move 1 or 2 things and get the basics coverd. Customers of the course are brainwashed into thinking that they are qualified sparks at the end of it.

I think the college will tell you the real deal tho. If you told him you wanted to be a spark, he'd send you on the 2357. If you told him your a builder and wanted to do a few bits and bobs then that maybe the reason he's give you the Electrical Trainee course.

 

[Octopus]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

so I checked out the courses available at my local college today and they do 2 part time courses, the one that seemed most suited to me was the Certificate of Domestic Electrical Installer Part P. The result of the qualification was 'you will be nominated as a qualified supervisor with a Competent Persons scheme'. Don't quite get what this means I'd be able to do? It hints that this is a course for builders/kitchen fitter who want in the foundation knowledge to commence working as domestic electrician, so it seems like it would suit my needs......anyone had any experience with a similar course?

Also it costs 1327 + vat for 10 weeks part time, is this a fair price?

Says who?

The course you indicate would not give you the skills nor knowledge to be a qualified superviser IMHO

 

[Darkwood]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Use your common sense, if you have the choice of a 3-4 yr course or a 5 week course which one do you think will teach you what you need to know, the fast track courses are money generating schemes for quick business courses they have sprung up and flooded the country over the last 10yrs and leave you ill prepared and an unknown danger to yourself and your customers.... the original design of these fast courses was for previously experienced in the trade who needed the papers but they soon realised that with a bit of careful wording they could make a fortune out of innocent joe public. There is simply no way IMHO that you can cram all you need to know and how to practice safely and competently into 5weeks, there are members on here who have done such courses and those who have had previous experience and a need to just trim the edges of their learning have found them useful and become successful , ill even admit a few have such a high passion to learn and become the best have made it but as for the rest ... they ask some really embarrassing questions that they should know as basic, there incompetence shines and I would never employ them or feel comfy having my house rewired by them.... ive met plenty on my travels and its unbelievable the knowledge they lack yet they have papers because a teaching scheme wants to generate profit.... schemes would fail if they made it difficult to pass as no-one would use them in favour of a scheme that has a high pass rate.

 

[Kate]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

If you're genuine Esubmarine then there's a couple of lads on here who are from your neck of the woods, Top Cat and MDJ are the two who immediately spring to mind but I think Kate is down your way too. They all know their stuff and I'm sure they'd be happy to quote you on whatever you need doing which will help you out in the most efficient way. If you're not genuine then why don't you just go away. Apolgies to anyone down that way who I've forgotten to mention

aww blush!! im remembered!!

 

[trev]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

aww blush!! im remembered!!

And I was right, well right ish. I have a memory like a steel trap Kate, a broken steel trap but none the less....

 

[Geordie Spark]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

And I was right, well right ish. I have a memory like a steel trap Kate, a broken steel trap but none the less....

My memory these days is similar - except I spell "trap" with a "c" as the first letter.

 

[Kate]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

I actually live smack back in between bristol and Glos in a little village! My address is in Gloucestershire. I also part time live in Bristol city centre. All depends where my work is. I get to cover two areas without a massive commute woohoo! I do feel a little privileged that you remembered!

 

[trev]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Well without wanting to sound patronising you're one of the few women who post on here so I guess you're a bit of a stand out

 

[Kate]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

ESUBMARINE...
my opinion on this...If you know your current sparky well why dont you ask if you can shadow him on every job you have together, get him to teach you up slowly. Your already at the job anyway it will just take up a chunk of your time. Then do the clearly hated 'Electrical Trainee' course. You may have had a bashing on here but its cause its all of our livelyhoods, and it is dangerous work. We are all just trying to say dont bite off more than you can chew it could be fatal!!

Its either that or a 3-4 year course

 

[Kate]

Re: general builder looking for basic electrical training(without wasting time and mo

Well without wanting to sound patronising you're one of the few women who post on here so I guess you're a bit of a stand out

Give it a week...the novelty will wear off and you will all wish i would leave!