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Joint cables inside back box?

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Mynamesmatt

I have one double socket in my kitchen (its part up the upstairs ring) ...and i need to change it to three doubles


Is it ok to use the double back box that is currently in the wall, to joint and extend the ring (and place a double blank plate over) then chase down and fit three doubles?

If so what type of connectors should i use, wagos?

Be nice ...........
pic thing.jpg
 
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im a qualified electrician! the original socket is far too high above the worktops, just all needs re-jigging really

thanks guys!

also, i came across a lighting junction box under the floorboards.. all the terminals inside were being used by live/neturals and so someone has brought the earths OUTSIDE the jb and put them all into a chock block.. anyone ever seen this done? hmmmmmmmm
 
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Sorry matt, didn't know you were a qualified electrician. I'm surprised you are asking about extending an RFC in that case. Not part P tho?
In answer to the JB question, yes, you will find that method used throughout thousands of homes. Not good practice, and one which I hate, but out there nonetheless.
 
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You've got it dead right matt, nice picture. Doesnt matter what you have behind the blank plate (crimps, terminal block, wagos) its all good although I love wagos these days. I wouldn't worry too much about that Part P nonsense, its your gaff and if you know what you're at then crack on.

On the subject of wagos
Anyone who has never use a wagobox/connectors please please give them a try you dont know what you are missing out on.
Picture this: 4 T&E's and 2 3 cores hanging out of a 70mm downlighter hole all need connecting together in an enclosure that will fit back through that hole.......major headache right...not with a wagobox and connectors. Literally takes about 10 minutes and only tool you need is cutters, no tape no drivers nothing.
Awesome awesome awesome
 
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Dave 85 said:
You've got it dead right matt, nice picture. Doesnt matter what you have behind the blank plate (crimps, terminal block, wagos) its all good although I love wagos these days. I wouldn't worry too much about that Part P nonsense, its your gaff and if you know what you're at then crack on.

On the subject of wagos
Anyone who has never use a wagobox/connectors please please give them a try you dont know what you are missing out on.
Picture this: 4 T&E's and 2 3 cores hanging out of a 70mm downlighter hole all need connecting together in an enclosure that will fit back through that hole.......major headache right...not with a wagobox and connectors. Literally takes about 10 minutes and only tool you need is cutters, no tape no drivers nothing.
Awesome awesome awesome
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so what if its 5A connectors....as i found the other day in a similar scenario?
 
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Dave 85 said:
You've got it dead right matt, nice picture. Doesnt matter what you have behind the blank plate (crimps, terminal block, wagos) its all good although I love wagos these days. I wouldn't worry too much about that Part P nonsense, its your gaff and if you know what you're at then crack on.
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Thanks for the support Dave.
 
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if it's exactly above the new socket, cut a bit of metal capping down and place it over the connections then plaster over it. I see no reason why that can't be done because it's still in a safe zone, that's only if your using maintenace free connections though
 
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Lucas said:
if it's exactly above the new socket, cut a bit of metal capping down and place it over the connections then plaster over it. I see no reason why that can't be done because it's still in a safe zone, that's only if your using maintenace free connections though
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I don't like that! I know it's ok cause it's mf but there's something about it I don't like and would never do myself
 
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I can't believe that you guys are telling a DIY'er how to do notifiable work in a building regs special location.
Lucas, many thing "can be done", but plastering over push connections does not make the joint MF.
 
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^^^^^tend to agree^^^^^ .....because it is a tad surprising that a qualified electrician needs to ask how to extend a RFC. If the OP was competant enough to ignore part p he wouldnt have to ask how to do the job.
I've been known to ignore part p but then I've been extending RFC's for decades before part p was a twinkle in the governments eye.
 
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wirepuller said:
^^^^^tend to agree^^^^^ .....because it is a tad surprising that a qualified electrician needs to ask how to extend a RFC. If the OP was competant enough to ignore part p he wouldnt have to ask how to do the job.
I've been known to ignore part p but then I've been extending RFC's for decades before part p was a twinkle in the governments eye.
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My point exactly. Extending an RFC is just another day at the office for a qualified electrician imo.
 
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Not every Qualified Electrician out there does domestic/commercial day in day out......many work in the industrial environment working on machinery,control panels, etc within a factory (for example).In this sort of enviroment you dont deal with ringmains so much (office electrics in some big factories tend to be done by outside contractors).

OP could be one of these type of sparks for all we know, unsure of the latest regs but know's what he wants to do and came here to check he's doing it correctly to the current reg's.

Wago's are the mutt's nuts...defo give them a go. As stated a ring extension is notifiable under (the farce) that is Part P.
 
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Swicade said:
Not every Qualified Electrician out there does domestic/commercial day in day out......many work in the industrial environment working on machinery,control panels, etc within a factory (for example).In this sort of enviroment you dont deal with ringmains so much (office electrics in some big factories tend to be done by outside contractors).

OP could be one of these type of sparks for all we know, unsure of the latest regs but know's what he wants to do and came here to check he's doing it correctly to the current reg's.

Wago's are the mutt's nuts...defo give them a go. As stated a ring extension is notifiable under (the farce) that is Part P.
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Sorry.....a rings a ring whether it's in a factory or the OP's kitchen.....a 'qualified electrician' should be able to deal with one.
 
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You may think it's tosh and I may think it's tosh, but it is the law. Very irresponsible to suggest to someone on a public forum to ignore it.​



Read more: http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...int-cables-inside-back-box.html#ixzz213ORD4lk​
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I didn't say he should ignore it, I was just pointing out the reallity of the situation. At the end of the day people will ignore Part P and do work for themselves - Fact. He is simply asking for advice on the correct way of doing the job rather than just doing it wrong.
 
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OP was checking to makesure what he wanted to do was within the latest reg's regarding the method of jointing the cable's. There's no doubt from the original post that he knew how to deal with a ring, was a reg's check.
 
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So..what's wrong with twist and tape? only joking.bored incarcerated in this place. can't wait till i get out. hopefully tomorrow

- - - Updated - - -

So..what's wrong with twist and tape? only joking.bored incarcerated in this place. can't wait till i get out. hopefully tomorrow
 
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so, it,s ok to spur 3 sockets off of the existing one without going thro a fused switch-spur??

sorry, just had another look, it is a ring! my mistake
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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Swicade said:
Not every Qualified Electrician out there does domestic/commercial day in day out......many work in the industrial environment working on machinery,control panels, etc within a factory (for example).In this sort of enviroment you dont deal with ringmains so much (office electrics in some big factories tend to be done by outside contractors).

OP could be one of these type of sparks for all we know, unsure of the latest regs but know's what he wants to do and came here to check he's doing it correctly to the current reg's.

Wago's are the mutt's nuts...defo give them a go. As stated a ring extension is notifiable under (the farce) that is Part P.
Click to expand...

My apprenticeship was as an industrial electrical engineer, and of course you learn about extending RFC's. If you want to talk regs, or even the law, then it is notifiable. End of.
For all any of us know, any person asking for help on here could be Manny the handyman, asking for advice on how to earn a living from "having a go" at notifiable work.
If I tell you that I'm a bank, will you lend me all your money? :)
 
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My posts are obviously like reading the reg's......i type them knowing what i want them to mean but they get read in a totaly different way *mutters*.

I'll go back to chewing on the cabbages around here just outside my cave....'tis a happy simple place.
 
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Guitarist said:
My apprenticeship was as an industrial electrical engineer, and of course you learn about extending RFC's. If you want to talk regs, or even the law, then it is notifiable. End of.
For all any of us know, any person asking for help on here could be Manny the handyman, asking for advice on how to earn a living from "having a go" at notifiable work.
If I tell you that I'm a bank, will you lend me all your money? :)
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yep...if folk want to do anything on their own homes/property....then let em i say.....but just handing out advice/info off the cuff.....
 
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I'm a funny old fellow me...
I don't hate part P and moan about it like everyone else does
But I dont go around enforcing it either...like everyone else does

The guy obvioulsy knows what hes doing and how to do it, its his house, If I was in his situation I'd do it myself and not notify so I'd be a hypocrit to tell him he shouldn't do it.
 
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Dave 85 said:
I'm a funny old fellow me...
I don't hate part P and moan about it like everyone else does
But I dont go around enforcing it either...like everyone else does

The guy obvioulsy knows what hes doing and how to do it, its his house, If I was in his situation I'd do it myself and not notify so I'd be a hypocrit to tell him he shouldn't do it.
Click to expand...

I don't hate part P, I hate that some people ignore it and don't bother forking out the hard-earned cash that most of us do, resulting in the electricians who do things by the book trying to compete on an uneven basis.
You don't know who's qualified and competent any more than I do, along with not really knowing if it even is their own house, hence I try to be careful what I advise people to do.
As for enforcing part P... explain how we manage that. I thought we were merely trying to let people understand what their obligations are, regardless of whether they suit them.
 
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i also had to double take at the picture. thought it was a spur.

just my 2ps, this is an extention to a ring circuit. and is notifiable works, and as such should be inspected after the works have taken place be that by the qualified electrican doing the work or the buildings control.
if you are doing this as a diy'er or a homeowner i would advise that it is well within your interests to get an electrician to carry this work out and sign it off.
As im sure you are well aware, it will invaludate your home insurance. and should the work be subject to a fire. will leave you high and dry.
i know that if i were in the same boat, id pay someone.
 
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a tad surprising that a qualified electrician needs to ask how to extend a RFC.
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He may be qualified but might not have the experience. Just because you have a piece of paper, doesn't mean you know the job iside out.
 
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personally i would use a normal nylon insulated connector to join the cables within the box or a proper crimp
those other things are for panel connections and desighned to fit onto a din rail
 
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Rauer said:
And obviously you've never seen a blank plate plasterd over then! I've seen it for too many times!
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And how many times have we crimped out a socket and put on a blank plate knowing damn well the customer is going to whip off the blank plate and fill it with plaster / tile over it?
I even 'discuss' safe zones with customers sometimes while watching a small smile of 'yeah whatever' on thier faces.
 
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Ive created uproar! haha, yea im not a domestic electrician, industrial! Was just seeing if this was the 'done' thing, or if there was a more preferred way of going about it..

as for part p.. ive just bought my house, there was no documentation or test certificates for any electrical work whatsoever (when does a home buyer EVER get those when buying a house..?!)

So whos to say that the electrics ive installed/may install werent already there when i bought it? no one! - it was like that when i turned up! :smilewinkgrin:

I would never do any unsafe work that would jeopardize my or any one else's safety. Nor would I do work that would cause damage to my home..

just seems crazy, thats all
 
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Joint cables inside back box?
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