Just starting out to becoming qualified

[Tee45]

Hi Guys , My name is Tony i'm 45 and have been working on and off as a sparky for many years , At 16 i did an apprenticeship but the company folded before signing my paper work and i have lost all my paper work from college , all my sparky jobs have been with qualified sparks so i would go out do the work test it bring back a report and they would fill in the sheets and so on , what i would like to do is be able to work legally on my own , I have been told by able skills that if i do a 5 day practical introduction course , a part p and a 17th edition i can go out and work and sign off my own work , to me this does not sound right , or is it because it is for domestic only, i have a good knowledge of domestic wiring but testing is a little more involved , though i do get some of it , i just need to do the correct courses but where do i start, i can't comit to full time so i need some short courses to get me going and i can build from there , any help would be much appreciated

 

[trev]

The bare minimum is 17th + calibrated test gear + insurances + a few books + a few jobs to show the assessor + the fees

 

[Engineer54]

As far as i'm aware, you don't need any Part Pee qualification, This is just another ploy by these private training centers to extract money out of you... Just looked on one site and seen the C&G 2391 Testing/inspection course is around 700 quid for a 6 day course and exam!!!! I'd check out all the outlets on costs etc, before parting with your hard earned.

 

[Dave 85]

Depends what you wanna do pal. If you wanna work for a company you'll probably need a good 4 years of part time training. (2330 L2+3, 17th ed, 2391)
If you wanna be self employed or start a company and be the guy who goes around making sure that all the electricians are doing it right and issuing the certs then you can get away with the 5 weeks worth of courses you have mentioned in your post.
I know. Its funny.

On a serious note if you have worked plenty as a spark/mate before and believe yr relatively competent and DO want to go self employed doing private domestic work, then I'd go with the shortest course you can find. The 2330 just teaches you a load of irrelevant crap for 3 years that a domestic sparky dont need to know.
Once you got 17th and part P course then you have to apply to be part P registered with Elecsa/NIC/Napit etc. This costs about £400 a year and requires you to have a job and your paperwork assessed by them every year.

If you have got a good source of work lined up, this is the way forward. If not, train as a bailiff, they plenty busy at the mo.

 

[Tee45]

I've read about the 2391 but i think you have to be a qualified electrician to do it , also some courses require a work placement which i do not have . I've been going round in circles for about 5 days and I'm still non the wiser . Do i start with a short 17th edition 3 day course or a 3 year 2330. i just need the quickest route so i can legally work in a domestic environment . i will not touch any job now without it , i like to sleep at night .

 

[stan794]

Mate Able Skills like all the other short courses will tell you what you want to hear, the bottom line is they are woefully inadequate and leave you with a few basic skills and not much else. Stay clear of them all.

 

[Tee45]

Then what do you reckon Stan. What do i need to do mate , what course should i do without a work placement

 

[trev]

C&G 2391 is INTENDED (caps deliberate) to be taken by qualified sparks currently practicing and already well versed in testing procedures. When I did it there were taxi drivers and people who didn't know which end of a driver to point at terminals.
I think it's all down to the individual college you take the course at, you should however have the 17th under your belt before you go for it

 

[Dave 85]

To do domestic work (without paying building control to check every job you do) the ONLY legal requirement is that you are Part P registered.
To become Part P registered all you need is a basic foundation course (the part P course being the shortest I beleive) and the 17th edition full course (about 20 hours)
You do NOT need 2391 to do domestic work legally.

HOWEVER, unless you have a lot of previous experience (which you claim you do) and are competent, these courses alone will leave you with very little knowledge in terms of fault finding/testing etc.

I have done 2330 L2+L3 and I can honestly say I would be just as competent at what I do had i done a short course instead.
Everyone raves about the benefits of college versus training centres but I would bet none of these guys have ever actually experienced the training centres (as I haven't) they just dont like the idea that the course is completed over a short space of time. Remember though that 5 weeks intensive would be equivalent to almost a year of night college or day release.

Personally from what I've heard from people who have been to traing centres, the training is far more relevant and hands on to a domestic sparky than the jumble of maths and physics they drum into you week after week at college. Well thats my experience of college anyway.

 

[Tee45]

Thanks so much Dave , I'll do the part p and 17th and go from there .

 

[trev]

Tee, if you're installing to 17th standards you're installing to part p standards also. Don't waste your money mate that domestic installers course is a proper load of old guff to anyone qualified.
I was going to sign up for it when it first came out but then I got a look at the course materials

 

[GLENNSPARK]

as you have been working in the trade for many years....i cant see an issue with owt here...look, all these part p providers want is cash at the end of it all.....its all about money Tee......and after reading your O/P i wouldn`t thing you need `able training` sticking there ore in either........if you want to join a scheme...then just do so....or you can just notify yourself (LABC)....all these `training centres` will do is sow the seeds of doubt into your mind...how dare they!......despicable really...

 

[Current Affairs]

You will need 17th & Part P for notifiable work. Without it, the council charge much more for notification. You do not need Napit, niceic or any of the other membership schemes. Just simply send in your notification with copies of your qualifications, Building control check your test results & issue a completion certificate, simples. If im doing notifiable work, I can easily loose the council charge in the job price and still be competitive.

I refuse to pay middle men such as napit for shuffling paperwork, I can do that myself.

 

[Dave 85]

You will need 17th & Part P for notifiable work. Without it, the council charge much more for notification. You do not need Napit, niceic or any of the other membership schemes. Just simply send in your notification with copies of your qualifications, Building control check your test results & issue a completion certificate, simples. If im doing notifiable work, I can easily loose the council charge in the job price and still be competitive.

I refuse to pay middle men such as napit for shuffling paperwork, I can do that myself.

I dont consider this to be very good advice. Out of interest, how much do you pay for a single job notification?
The fact is, that the majority of work worth doing will be notifiable and for two days earnings you can buy yourself a years registration. Being able to put 'approved competent person' on your van/letterheads/business cards pays dividends and not being registered will make you look somewhat of a cowboy if questioned on it.
It seems to me your policy is borne purely out of stubborness.

Tee 45 my advice to you would be to speak to elecsa (they seem to be the favoured scheme, I use them and they are good) explain your predicament, current qualifications and find out what the minimum qualifications they require from you are. Do said quals, get public liability insurance for up to £2 million (about £150) buy a multi tester (£700, you must own one)) do a job which includes a new consumer unit (replace the one in your house if necessary) test it and fill out a cert, you are now ready for an assessment. Elecsa are very helpful and will tell you exactly what they require. The assessments are VERY difficult to fail if you are competent.

 

[Current Affairs]

Dave notification to my local council is only £75. For someone just starting, in most cases they will not be able to afford the cost of membership & assesment which will normally run to approx £600. Having a membership sticker on the side of your van is over rated, I have never struggled for work and I am still flat out. Plenty of work in my area putting right the work completed by NICEIC electricians!! They seem to take anyone on their scheme.

 

[Dave 85]

I notify about 70 jobs a year. With the registration and notification fees that costs me around £500-£600 You would pay £6,000 for the same service direct from LABC.
Registration does not cost £600 a year, it's around £370.
If you can't get hold of £370 when starting a business, then you're probably doomed to failure anyway.
You should have 10k minimum in the bank to start out as an electrical contractor in my opinion.