Kitchen appliance sockets and safe zones - right or wrong?

[AlphaBanana]

Hi all,

I think I'm posting this in the right place - apologies if not. I'm wondering if I could ask for a bit of help here.

I'm renovating a house for myself to live in, and I've spoken to an electrician this week to have it fully rewired. There appears to be a problem though with my planned utility room layout.

The attached picture (top half) shows the layout I planned after reading up as much as I could on forums like this one. Although perhaps not ideal to have sockets below the sink, I understand the regulations allow it, and there's nowhere else to make the sockets accessible. I've fitted the trucking and back boxes, as the electrician told me I could save a bit by doing the general chasing out etc throughout the house.

This electrician refused to do it this way because, he insists, the regulations demand:

(1) that the socket for a washing machine or tumble dryer must have an isolating switch above the worktop, and cannot be in a cupboard because it's not accessible;
(2) the presence of a cupboard in front of the sockets changes the normal safe zone rules, such that the vertical yellow line is no longer a safe zone because the socket isn't immediately visible.

Everything I can find online, without exception, says his first point is wrong, and I can't find anything at all regarding his second point. Also, a friend's recently professionally-refitted kitchen has each appliance plugged into a socket in the cupboard next to it. But I'm in no way qualified to be certain, and when I tried questioning, he just dug his heels in.

The bottom half shows what he tells me is necessary. Each isolating switch must be above its appliance, and >300mm from the sink, and therefore the socket must be hidden behind the appliance. I don't want them there, mainly because they're completely inaccessible, partly because it would probably push the appliance out slightly.

Is this one of those grey areas? Or is one of us just plain wrong? I'd greatly appreciate any help.

 

[Octopus]

There is no need for isolation, however all sockets need to be accessible, so behind heavy appliances isn't recommended.

Safe zones are vertical and horizontal from sockets and switches.

 

[westward10]

I would crack on with your original scheme there is nothing wrong with it. So called safe zones do not take into consideration whether you can see the socket or not.

 

[Wilko]

Your man is uncomfortable with something different, which I can understand. As you've been advised (and seen) the connection to appliances can be in a cupboard as you've proposed. Perhaps he would be happier if the drop aligned with an outlet (as in 4) but then continued down to the lower level, then 90 degree turn and run horizontal to the appliance connections (as in 2).

 

[telectrix]

if the sockets are behind the appliances, chances are they will foul the appliance. best in cupboards, using diagram #4, but isolators are not necessary as long as you can access the sockets without stripping the cupboards out.

 

[Aurai]

These cases are a little bit about good practice, becoming a reference when it is then best to refer to how we get there. As at least two people have mentioned the key word "access". We even have 513.1 ACCESSIBILITY to help us.

I am working on a kitchen this week and next, so interested in this post. The gist of the regs is, a socket shall be arranged to facilitate its operation, inspection and maintenance. This should not be impaired by mounting it in an enclosure or a compartment.

The use of an isolator above the worktop, meets the requirement easily, anything else has to be thought about and meet 513.1. My first thought is the reg is not met if you put your isolator at the back of or behind a cupboard. Regards

 

[Midwest]

These cases are a little bit about good practice, becoming a reference when it is then best to refer to how we get there. As at least two people have mentioned the key word "access". We even have 513.1 ACCESSIBILITY to help us.

I am working on a kitchen this week and next, so interested in this post. The gist of the regs is, a socket shall be arranged to facilitate its operation, inspection and maintenance. This should not be impaired by mounting it in an enclosure or a compartment.

The use of an isolator above the worktop, meets the requirement easily, anything else has to be thought about and meet 513.1. My first thought is the reg is not met if you put your isolator at the back of or behind a cupboard. Regards

On a new build, you might not comply with Document M, hence they use grid switched controlled sockets for appliances.

Doubt if the OP has this issue?

 

[Octopus]

The gist of the regs is, a socket shall be arranged to facilitate its operation, inspection and maintenance. This should not be impaired by mounting it in an enclosure or a compartment.

Edit - just re read 513.1 - that's a really badly worded reg - wonder what the author(s) actually mean?

 

[Midwest]

I'd go with your plan as well, but how you gonna convince your sparks?

How far back can you push your free standing appliance with socket & plug top in the way? You could replace the plug & socket (appliance) to flex outlet, but its a bit of a pain for cleaning or maintenance.

 

[Octopus]

FWIW - never have a plug for an appliance behind a kitchen appliance.

 

[Wilko]

Reading 513.1, my take is that however it's mounted, it's to be accessible. It's use etc is not to be significantly impaired. If I can reach into the cupboard to 2nd fix and test the outlet in the normal way, then I don't feel I have created an outlet that offends this reg (?). At mine, the CU is in a cupboard.

 

[Wilko]

Thinking further - if I needed a tool to get access to the outlet, that would perhaps be significant impairment to its normal operation etc.

 

[Octopus]

Reading 513.1, my take is that however it's mounted, it's to be accessible. It's use etc is not to be significantly impaired. If I can reach into the cupboard to 2nd fix and test the outlet in the normal way, then I don't feel I have created an outlet that offends this reg (?). At mine, the CU is in a cupboard.

i.e. moving some tins of beans and cereal to gain access to a socket is easier than a 90 year old lady pulling out a washing machine!

I agree with you BTW

 

[buzzlightyear]

all he's got to do is stick one d/socket in base unit. why have two.
considering meter and half cable from the appliance .
the idea is having the socket in the base unit
1) to isolate it invent of the appliance catch fire .

 

[Wilko]

i.e. moving some tins of beans and cereal to gain access to a socket is easier than a 90 year old lady pulling out a washing machine!

So true - at mine some kind person done just that and the washer and drier are now stacked in front of the outlet. PITA if the outlet / plug failed. I'd have to get Wifey to move them .