New build timber framed problem

[jstephens251]

Hi everyone,

Thought I'd post here to see if any of you have wired new builds single storey, no loft with foil back insulation.

Its a high spec new build - downlights, data cables, speakers wires etc

I have attached a pic of the ceiling which has just been finished.

The problems i've got is there is barely a 40mm gap so drilling through will put me way out of regs. This stuff is stapled tight to ceiling so bit of a nightmare really.

Wondered what others have done to comply with regs.

Cheers, Jon

 

[Ian1981]

Hi everyone,

Thought I'd post here to see if any of you have wired new builds single storey, no loft with foil back insulation.

Its a high spec new build - downlights, data cables, speakers wires etc

I have attached a pic of the ceiling which has just been finished.

The problems i've got is there is barely a 40mm gap so drilling through will put me way out of regs. This stuff is stapled tight to ceiling so bit of a nightmare really.

Wondered what others have done to comply with regs.

Cheers, Jon

View attachment 36413

Steel joist plates perhaps.
Drill high as you can and plate the bottom of the joist

 

[J.C.E]

will not get recessed lighting in there thats for sure

 

[jstephens251]

yeah not a bad shout. plasterer might not be too happy though if they stick out.
I've raised my concerns with customer and will be checking with inspector too as theres some serious amount of cabling going in so a potential nightmare really

 

[Ian1981]

yeah not a bad shout. plasterer might not be too happy though if they stick out.
I've raised my concerns with customer and will be checking with inspector too as theres some serious amount of cabling going in so a potential nightmare really

Shouldn't stick out as you'll have the depth of the plaster board as well

 

[jstephens251]

will not get recessed lighting in there thats for sure

i know, another nightmare! theres about 90 on the plan lol also ceiling speakers. jesus. typical as it started as a nice looking job to get involved with

 

[Ian1981]

i know, another nightmare! theres about 90 on the plan lol also ceiling speakers. jesus. typical as it started as a nice looking job to get involved with

Sounds a ball ache mate

 

[J.C.E]

click do low profile downlights- think they need 50mm- so if that batten in 40+10mm plasterboard- but they are pretty expensive for 90 of the things...

 

[Ian1981]

Sounds a ball ache mate

Can the finished ceiling heights be dropped to allow cables to be clipped to underside of joist but give you your 50mm clearance?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Can the finished ceiling heights be dropped to allow cables to be clipped to underside of joist but give you your 50mm clearance?

Get the builder to batten the ceiling off.

 

[jstephens251]

yeah its a ball ache for sure. amazing how they design these builds with no runs for cables etc.
I was thinking about ceiling being dropped so will certainly ask the question. cheers guys, already a big help

 

[Ian1981]

yeah its a ball ache for sure. amazing how they design these builds with no runs for cables etc.
I was thinking about ceiling being dropped so will certainly ask the question. cheers guys, already a big help

Just wait until they get all that kingspan in the walls as well
Timber frame new builds are a nightmare sometimes........
Just think of all them noggins you have to put in for the back boxes

 

[Des 56]

A similar situation was encountered with concrete ceiling council flats
If they can cross baton that ceiling with some 2x2 or such,it should make all the runs simple and give you that extra space for the fittings
Lowering the ceiling level should cause them little problem for the great advantages obtained

 

[jstephens251]

A similar situation was encountered with concrete ceiling council flats
If they can cross baton that ceiling with some 2x2 or such,it should make all the runs simple and give you that extra space for the fittings
Lowering the ceiling level should cause them little problem for the great advantages obtained

yeah with you there. only slight snag is it's a 5 bed single story, large rooms and pitched ceilings so thats a fair bit of wood and labour!
cheers

 

[FatAlan]

Sounds like the earlier discussion re the cellotex/ flat roof and downlights. Don't these architects ever factor in wiring and pipes ?

 

[Ian1981]

yeah with you there. only slight snag is it's a 5 bed single story, large rooms and pitched ceilings so thats a fair bit of wood and labour!
cheers

Run all the cables in your 150mm top of wall zones and stick wall lights in instead!
( I'm kidding)

 

[jstephens251]

Just wait until they get all that kingspan in the walls as well
Timber frame new builds are a nightmare sometimes........
Just think of all them noggins you have to put in for the back boxes

i don't mind the noggins, purchased an evolution saw from screw fix last yr on a new build, quite enjoy. should of been a chippy instead lol

 

[Ian1981]

i don't mind the noggins, purchased an evolution saw from screw fix last yr on a new build, quite enjoy. should of been a chippy instead lol

I needed a rip saw on one site I did.
Don't teach you that at college do they all snug in your own little work bay! Ha

 

[jstephens251]

Sounds like the earlier discussion re the cellotex/ flat roof and downlights. Don't these architects ever factor in wiring and pipes ?

i know. they all seem to be going down the road of high ceilings etc. I miss lofts lol. never thought id say that

 

[ruston]

yeah with you there. only slight snag is it's a 5 bed single story, large rooms and pitched ceilings so thats a fair bit of wood and labour!
cheers

Not a lot of choice really . They can not have it all ways.

 

[Ian1981]

The way they build houses nowadays, just think of the nightmare involved when they need rewiring in years to come.
Trying to get your floor up........
Holes in the ceilings when no access above.
Hopefully I'll be on the way to retirement.
Only another 30 -40 years to go!

 

[jstephens251]

Not a lot of choice really . They can not have it always.

no, I can't see there will be to be honest. Customer is in love with downlights everywhere, speakers all over the place so its the only way

 

[Leesparkykent]

Bit of roofing batten and a nail gun...the builder should have that sorted in no time.

 

[davesparks]

Doesn't anyone have site meetings with the architwat on jobs like this any more?

 

[Dave OCD]

The trouble is although architects are often perceived as intelligent professionals common sense isn't that common.

 

[davesparks]

The trouble is although architects are often perceived as intelligent professionals common sense isn't that common.

I can't say I've ever perceived the modern ones as such!

We had a couple we worked with regularly when I was an apprentice, proper old-school traditional architects who respected the tradesmen and actually discussed things. They even drew plans by hand, to scale, with dimensions and good notes!

 

[jstephens251]

Doesn't anyone have site meetings with the architwat on jobs like this any more?

No, nothing at all its all by email. I've recently been brought on board and called round earlier to see this garbage.
I find it incredible how these places get built with no thought to electrics/plumbing
Seems every new build i do you have to scrape by to get wires in and comply with the good old regs.

 

[bigspark17]

Cross baten the ceiling?

 

[Des 56]

I once did a new build a quite a few years back,the architects name was Ian Goodenough
It is a genuine name for a guy that actually was good enough

 

[Dave OCD]

Wow, I can see you're right up to speed on this thread.

Cross baten the ceiling?