No main earth in domestic supply

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P&Q

Hi everyone,

I got called in by a customer to install a new circuit for their cooker in the kitchen. So I went over and looked at the main supply and there was no earth. So I told them to get in touch with their supplier and ask about this missing main incoming earth cable and what is the Earthing system, and this afternoon he got back to me, and Scottish Power had simply said, some houses have earth and some really old ones don't - all they have is a Phase and a Neutral cable, and that's it and they're not gonna do anything about it.

I was just wondering, what the deal is with is, should I get back to them myself, or even set up a TT system myself?

Appreciate any advice in advanced guys
 
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Supplier earths are not compulsary however if they provide one they have to maintain it.

If there is no earth present then RCD and Earth Rod is needed ASAP
 
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sod them! pme it if you achieve less than 0.35ohms your all good to go. and remember, thats how you found it before you done any works!
 
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I had the same problem recently. Contact the dno and ask them if it's a pme area. The house I looked at had no earth but they confirmed it was a pme area and came out within the hour and installed a earth bar free of charge.
 
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Thanks everyone!
I forgot to mention, the CU is very old, but surprisingly someone's been in and connected a 6mm cable from the earth bar and bonded it to the gas pipe, and used a yellow and green cable which shows it can't be that old, and there's a new type earth clamp too. I'm surprised that no other electrician that's been in before has spotted the problem.
The house holder has moved in about 5 years ago and they hold no certificates or anything so I have no way of knowing the history of what' been done here before.
Thanks for all you replies again - all very helpful
just wondering if it's possible that the DNO has given my customer wrong info? If so, how can I be sure to get accurate info from them?
 
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Stress head said:
I had the same problem recently. Contact the dno and ask them if it's a pme area. The house I looked at had no earth but they confirmed it was a pme area and came out within the hour and installed a earth bar free of charge.
Click to expand...

Thanks, and sorry your reply must have come while I was typing my response, thank you I will be in touch with the DNO myself then
 
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I was hoping it was a badly worded statement and he was going to ask the DNO to do it for him.

Probably not tho, not with phrases like 'sod them' and ' if you get less than 0.35, your good to go'
 
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i knew this statement would shock people, its an option if you dont want to wait around for there 3 houyr response time! sorry guys ill take it back, but somethimes you mite not have 3 hours!
 
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chiplard said:
Try illegal!!!!!

Not bad practice.

With regards to fires' last post
Click to expand...

Yep, if it's designed as a TT and you TNCS it, there are not generally enough DNO PME electrodes to raise the ground to the same potential as the MET. :cool:

net result = all extraneous conductive parts at 230v

So not only illegal but very dangerous (as eng54 correctly pointed out)

and thats as many abbreviations as I can squeeze into one sentence!
 
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Benny_Boy said:
Yep, if it's designed as a TNS and you TNCS it, there are not generally enough DNO PME electrodes to raise the ground to the same potential as the MET. :cool:

net result = all extraneous conductive parts at 230v

So not only illegal but very dangerous (as eng54 correctly pointed out)

and thats as many abbreviations as I can squeeze into one sentence!
Click to expand...

You could have sqeezed in CNE after PME! :)

But I do agree with you Benny, very dangerous (and stupid) thing to attempt.
 
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P&Q said:
Hi everyone,

I got called in by a customer to install a new circuit for their cooker in the kitchen. So I went over and looked at the main supply and there was no earth. So I told them to get in touch with their supplier and ask about this missing main incoming earth cable and what is the Earthing system, and this afternoon he got back to me, and Scottish Power had simply said, some houses have earth and some really old ones don't - all they have is a Phase and a Neutral cable, and that's it and they're not gonna do anything about it.

I was just wondering, what the deal is with is, should I get back to them myself, or even set up a TT system myself?

Appreciate any advice in advanced guys
Click to expand...

This is exactly the same as the house I'm working on - except that we have a bit of 6mm green & yellow connected to the earth bus at one end & wrapped around a central heating pipe under a bedroom floor at the other, and that's all.

When I've finished the job, it will be TT & have a High Integrity board and a full rewire with 10mm bonding to the gas, water & central heating.

I'm also fitting a double pole isolator in the tails between the meter & the new board to save chopping the seal & pulling the main fuse in future.
 
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Someone's been in to connect an earth to the gas pipe? When did that happen? I suggest that you've never seen a TT system, missed the earthing that was present, ie., the earth electrode rod outside the front or back door including the main protective bonding to the gas and water and that the dwelling was absolutely fine.
 
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mcummins7 said:
Someone's been in to connect an earth to the gas pipe? When did that happen? I suggest that you've never seen a TT system, missed the earthing that was present, ie., the earth electrode rod outside the front or back door including the main protective bonding to the gas and water and that the dwelling was absolutely fine.
Click to expand...

No offence but I think your jumping the gun a bit 'suggesting' the OP has never seen a TT.
You could be right and the he may have missed the rod outside but it doesn't mean he's never seen one before.
Remember a gas pipe can be used as a earthing point IF it is privately owned.
We Havnt got enough info here to know if that could even happen at this property so I don't want to make presumptions.
 
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scottish power dont have to supply an earth easiest soloution earth rod out side into property with apropriate cabling should provide decent earth
 
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Golden_Boy said:
I rang up my DNO to ask what sort of earth I should have here at home ( presently TT ) .. The answer I got was " Ask your Electrician " !!!! Stupid or what?
Click to expand...
Yep, most folks on here have had similar experiences when dealing with DNOs. The problem seems to be a complete lack of anyone who knows what they're talking about!
 
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did a job last week at a house with no DNO earth. Ze via the bonded gas and water was 0.3 ohms. Installed an earth rod and RCD though. DNO wanted £300 to put a connection from the lead sheath to the MET, customer decided to go with the cheaper RCD and rod option. Hate dealing with the DNO, too many fob offs from people who dont know what is happening.
 
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pretty sure you cant just use the main neutral conductor as a main earth conductor, as i understand it pme has a earthed neutral (DNO side) which will provide a alternative path under fault conditions , if the neutral wasn't earthed and there was a main neutral fault (although unlikely) everything attached to the met and all cpc's would become live, please correct me if I'm wrong
cheers
 
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No main earth in domestic supply
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